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First look at Broadwell-E. Intels first step in performance regression.

Not exactly. Seems like in this particular example the 22-core Broadwell was throttling its per-core frequency more than the 18-core Haswell.

So IPC has improved, and the Broadwell-E CPUs won't have this problem since they'll only be 6-10 cores.
 
Still nice to know you can now get 44 cores / 88 threads in a standard pc case.
That is impressive!

Most are more interested in a higher IPC which we knew anyway that broadwell didn't change drastically over haswell. For those who just needed more cores for better computational power, it's welcome. No matter how you spin it, the E5-2699 v4 is a beast! A insanely powerfull chip in a tiny package. I'd swap what I have for those in a heartbeat. (If they were not so damn expensive).

I wonder how well these overclock.
 
If you read the full Anandtech article, they say the Broadwell is throttling for some reason, and they think it's just an early firmware bug.

So what you're seeing is 23% more performance from 22% more cores, running at less than 100% the same clockspeed.

So IPC has definitely improved, and the Broadwell-E's will definitely be faster than the Haswell-E's (clockspeed allowing). Obviously not by much, but it isn't slower...
 
Could the pathetic ~1% improvement since the 5820K was released in 2014 August be because of Intel hiring useless R&D staff due to diversity quotas?

http://www.dailydot.com/technology/intel-meritocracy-layoffs-questions/

Are you even aware of the topic of this post?

This is the server grade Broadwell chip. NOT the X99 variant that will be released shortly.

Broadwell-E should offer much better performance than Haswell-E, due to increased core count and increased IPC.
 
The only chance Broadwell seems to have is if with 8 cores it can be overclocked higher than Haswell. With Intels stance on overclocking thats far from a certainty.
 
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We knew it would suck.

There isn't anything interesting coming from Intel until the materials change. Not sure how they will get that done with a staff of diversity quota hires though.
 
Anandtech pretty much spells it out, software just needs optimising for the newer architecture and single core performance will be the same (despite the lower clockspeed) and plus you'll have more cores. Who buys a 22 core processor for IPC anyway? that's what the higher clocked 4 core Xeons are for.

It's always the same when Intel release a new architecture, highly selective doom and gloom threads from the resident AMD supporters club.

Switching from -O2 to -Ofast improves Broadwell-EP's absolute performance by over 19%. Meanwhile the relative performance advantage versus the Xeon E5-2690 averages 3%. As a result, the clockspeed disadvantage of the latest Xeon is negated by the increase in IPC. Clearly the latest generation of Xeons benefit more from aggressive optimizations than the previous ones. That is unsurprising of course, but it is interesting that the newest Xeons need more optimization to "hold the line" in single core performance.

So far we can conclude that if you were to upgrade from a Xeon E5-2xxx v1 to a similar v4 model, your single threaded integer code will not run faster without recompiling and optimizing. The process improvements have been used mostly to add more cores in the same power envelope, while at same time Intel also traded a few speed bins in to add even more cores in the top models. As a result single core integer performance basically holds the line, nothing more.

As for the turbo issue it's most likely a firmware bug like Anandtech suggests.
 
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What do you mean software just needs optimising for the newer architecture? That is pretty difficult to do and rarely involves dramatically increased performance except where new instruction sets are utilised. Switching from -O2 to -Ofast will improve absolute performance on most CPUs, and is highly dependent on the program you're using. Usually it's not recommended since it can cause issues that -O2 and -O3 don't.

That article says exactly the same as everyone has been predicting forever: a 3% IPC increase and lower average clocks, so basically nothing to see here.
 
Anandtech pretty much spells it out, software just needs optimising for the newer architecture and single core performance will be the same (despite the lower clockspeed) and plus you'll have more cores. Who buys a 22 core processor for IPC anyway? that's what the higher clocked 4 core Xeons are for.

It's always the same when Intel release a new architecture, highly selective doom and gloom threads from the resident AMD supporters club.



As for the turbo issue it's most likely a firmware bug like Anandtech suggests.

Some sense here. Someone who actually read the article as well :D
 
Worse. With the money Intel make and the size of the firm they should be doing much better. I think Intel spend more on stationary than the whole of AMD's budget :p
 
For sure. Prices are rising too. i7 and i5 have become silly. With every node shrink prices have gone up and Intels profits have grown massively. The performance increases are shameful.
 
For sure. Prices are rising too. i7 and i5 have become silly. With every node shrink prices have gone up and Intels profits have grown massively. The performance increases are shameful.

Jigger this claim 'prices are rising' (Intel's) has been proven (by me) to be false and I have called you out on it before... please stop perpetuating this lie. Adjusted for inflation Intel's price (in dollars - because that's the currency that Intel sell their products in) for the 6700K is pretty much the same as the 2600k!

The UK price over that time has fluctuated due to VAT rising 2.5% from 17.5% to 20% the pound/dollar rate fluctuating from a high of 1.67 in 2011 to a low of 1.38 in 2016 (it went even higher in 2014 [1.71]) and due to stock shortages in the retail chains!

Check out the launch bulk prices (i.e. what Intel sell on to retailers OEM’s etc) for the previous ‘top end’ i7 consumer socket four core/ eight thread CPU’s over the past four years


http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/85193-intel-core-i7-6700k-14nm-skylake/

Launch 1ku prices

6700k $350 - August 2015
5775c $366
4790k $339
4770k $339
3770k $313
2700k $332 - October 2011


Allowing for inflation (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ ) from 2011 to 2015 plugging the 2700k value in gives an inflation adjusted price of…………………….


Drum roll


$351.20!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 6700k is a 14nm CPU so where is the premium Intel charged for the CPU new over the previous gen Broadwell (which they asked more for! - probably due to the iGPU) and over the gen before that, Haswell, where they asked for a whole $11 dollars less.

Haswell to Skylake is 22nm to 14nm with a whole new CPU design to cost for

Haswell-E to Broadwell-E is the same design shrunk from 22nm to 14nm i.e. probably cheaper to deal with then a new CPU design

Oh and if you factor in inflation for the 4770k (march 2013) to 2015 the price goes from 339 to 346
so basically adjusted for Inflation Intel's 4c/8t top end cpu pricing has remained pretty much unchanged

You have previously gone on about the relative size of the Skylake die compared to previous gens suggesting that Intel are conning us there. Firstly this is irrelevant to your claim in this thread (that the price of the CPU's are rising) and secondly I have demonstrated that the savings on die size as a percentage of the retail cost are not likely all that great....

In reality the cost of the wafer the CPU is produced from only represents a small portion of the total cost. Most of the cost of Intel cpu's is to recover the large sunken costs or research, development and the fabs needed to make the chips.

To illustrate my point... This article put the cost of a high end CPU wafer (300mm round wafer) at $5,000 in 2014

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhandy/2014/04/30/why-are-chips-so-expensive/#28f03e4a7789

A skylake cpu is 122.4mm2

A 300mm wide wafer has a surface area of 70685mm2 (area = 'pie - 3.14159' * radius [150]squared)

So 577 odd skylake 4c dies could fit on that wafer.

Now as the wafer is round so some of the dies wont fit in their entirety and some will be lost due to defects. Lets assume an unrealistically high loss of 50% from these two factors that leaves 288 odd chips.

So in my example each chip costs $17.36 each from the cost of the space on the wafer alone. A 6700k had a launch 1ku price of $350 so about 5% of the bulk price for the CPU!

To expect Intel to be selling 6700k's cheap (at or less than about £200 by the time they reach our shores) because the die is a lot smaller than previous gens is therefore somewhat ridiculous (a 14nm cpu occupies about a quarter the space of a 32nm cpu of the same sort of design)

Now in reality the cpu's from such a wafer wont all be 6700k's, subject to a 'binning' process some will be 6700's some 6600's some 6400's etc which of course sell for less money. But then the overall loss of defective chips wont be anything like 50% so its not unreasonable to assume a far lower cost than $15-20 cost per chip from a 300mm wafer representing around 5% of the details value of those chips



Most of the cost of the CPU's relate to recouping R+D costs + Fabs.

If you doubt me work out the prices in £'s....

i7 2600K released January 2011
i7 6700K released August 2015 - April 2016 (8 months later) price £299.99 on OCUK £/$ rate 1.41

i7 2600k 8 months (2.9.2011) after release £239.99 (on TWO!) http://web.archive.org/web/20110820...?prodid=cp-358-in&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat= £/$ exchange 1.61....

uk inflation calculator 2011 - 2016 shows that £239.99 in 2011 £'s equals £274.81 in 2016 £'s....

Adjust £274.81 for decrease in £/$ exchange rate 1.61 to 1.41 (approx a 12.5% reduction) = £313.79!

So accounting for inflation and £/$ shifts the 6700K is cheaper on OCUK at the same point from its release than the 2600K!

The lack of big gains in performance since Sandy Bridge probably has more to do with physics and the limits of using silicon as a material base for CPU's as Intel are hardly the only firm struggling to maintain previous performance increases with silicon...


Back on to the opening OP as per other posts Broadwell does not have inferior IPC compared to Haswell (it doesn't have much better IPC either!) Clock throttling is at work here

The principal benefit of the Broadwell Xeon line over the Haswell line is the ability to cram in more cores in a similar power envelope. This improvement however is of no relevance to the bulk of Enthusiasts where existing hex and octo cores CPU's are already under utilised by a large degree by most software
 
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