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First look at Broadwell-E. Intels first step in performance regression.

The only chance Broadwell seems to have is if with 8 cores it can be overclocked higher than Haswell. With Intels stance on overclocking thats far from a certainty.
 
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Worse. With the money Intel make and the size of the firm they should be doing much better. I think Intel spend more on stationary than the whole of AMD's budget :p
 
For sure. Prices are rising too. i7 and i5 have become silly. With every node shrink prices have gone up and Intels profits have grown massively. The performance increases are shameful.
 
Caracus2k said:
Jigger this claim 'prices are rising' (Intel's) has been proven (by me) to be false and I have called you out on it before... please stop perpetuating this lie. Adjusted for inflation Intel's price (in dollars - because that's the currency that Intel sell their products in) for the 6700K is pretty much the same as the 2600k!

The UK price over that time has fluctuated due to VAT rising 2.5% from 17.5% to 20% the pound/dollar rate fluctuating from a high of 1.67 in 2011 to a low of 1.38 in 2016 (it went even higher in 2014 [1.71]) and due to stock shortages in the retail chains!



You have previously gone on about the relative size of the Skylake die compared to previous gens suggesting that Intel are conning us there. Firstly this is irrelevant to your claim in this thread (that the price of the CPU's are rising) and secondly I have demonstrated that the savings on die size as a percentage of the retail cost are not likely all that great....





Most of the cost of the CPU's relate to recouping R+D costs + Fabs.

If you doubt me work out the prices in £'s....

i7 2600K released January 2011
i7 6700K released August 2015 - April 2016 (8 months later) price £299.99 on OCUK £/$ rate 1.41

i7 2600k 8 months (2.9.2011) after release £239.99 (on TWO!) http://web.archive.org/web/20110820...?prodid=cp-358-in&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat= £/$ exchange 1.61....

uk inflation calculator 2011 - 2016 shows that £239.99 in 2011 £'s equals £274.81 in 2016 £'s....

Adjust £274.81 for decrease in £/$ exchange rate 1.61 to 1.41 (approx a 12.5% reduction) = £313.79!

So accounting for inflation and £/$ shifts the 6700K is cheaper on OCUK at the same point from its release than the 2600K!

The lack of big gains in performance since Sandy Bridge probably has more to do with physics and the limits of using silicon as a material base for CPU's as Intel are hardly the only firm struggling to maintain previous performance increases with silicon...


Back on to the opening OP as per other posts Broadwell does not have inferior IPC compared to Haswell (it doesn't have much better IPC either!) Clock throttling is at work here

The principal benefit of the Broadwell Xeon line over the Haswell line is the ability to cram in more cores in a similar power envelope. This improvement however is of no relevance to the bulk of Enthusiasts where existing hex and octo cores CPU's are already under utilised by a large degree by most software
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OMG it's you again. You keep saying this but it's not true.
 
Ayahuasca said:
So he gives you concrete evidence and you respond with it's not true with nothing to back your own opinion up.
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I've responded so many times along with many other people. He's just got a bee in his bonnet for some reason and is unable to agree to disagree :rolleyes:
 
Caracus2k said:
I'm not going to 'agree to disagree' when your palpably wrong on your claim 'Prices are rising too. i7 and i5 have become silly'. Prices (when adjusted for inflation and the £/$ exchange rate) have not risen for years! I have clearly shown this!

Your tack then seems to be to bluster about the size of the die and the corresponding cost reduction associated.

Firstly this is irrelevant to your claim that the price of the cpu's have "become silly' because they have not Intel's pricing has remained flat for successive generations of consumer top end i7 and i5 processors for at least the past five years. I have also shown that AMD were charging similar money for their top end cpu's when they were more competitive at the top end

Secondly I have demonstrated that the cost to Intel of a cpu's die is a relatively small fraction of its end cost *circa 5%* so to expect big reductions in the end cost is naive especially considering the problem and delays Intel have had recently especially with 14nm cpu's that will have cost them $$$'s

UK pricing has fluctuated due to the exchange rate and prices in general have risen due to inflation.

Intel are not responsible for either of these and so cant be blamed for them!
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Sorry but prices have infact risen and production cost have fallen. Why or how I care not. Fact is 320 is more than 250 so prices have indeed risen and £320 for a quad chip thats barley any faster than chips that come before it is silly.
 
Well I think you can get a Xeon hex core from about 200. The i7-5820K was closer to £360 IIRC but offered very limited overclocking to point my current chip would be faster in the majority of situations. It didn't make any sense to go X99.
 
I'm not ignoring inflation or arguing otherwise. Once you consider 14nm is much cheaper to produce than 22nm prices have been increased. But yeah no matter how he spins the numbers more is still more :p
 
It wasn't last month and I seem to remember the 6700k getting closer to £350 before that. Intel must be reading the forum.

I'm still not interested at £300 though...

You really seem to have no clue just how much money Intel make R&D will be well covered.
 
mmj_uk said:
Adopting new technology like 14nm tends to increase cost in the short term and the iGPU has become increasingly bigger and more complex with each generation, like I said you can't just focus on the CPU side and ignore the iGPU when comparing Intel mainstream.

I don't doubt that Intel are doing everything to maximise profit (ie. skimping by using TIM between heatspreader) but to say that 6700K is barely any better than a 2500K is wrong when you include the iGPU in the equation, inflation or not it's a significantly better product for the market it is intended (your average PC World customer). If enthusiasts want to buy them instead of the actual enthusiast product line then more fool them.
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When did I say the 2500k is barley any faster? I might have said the move from a 2500k to a 6700K isn't worth it.

I'm not looking for an iGP upgrade though and I don't think any other enthusiasts are. Intel would have been better off removing the graphics portion of chips like this. No one buys an i7 for it's on board GPU and even less people would look to upgrade it.
 
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Never mentioned Sandy bridge but it's still competitive with Devils Canyon/Skylake

I'm not sure about you but a £320 CPU, £150 motherboard and £100 on memory is pretty enthusiastic spending to me :p

I would move to X99 if Intel could bring out a chip worth buying, and the massive expense made any kind of sense. Thats kind of the issue :confused:
 
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It's Intel fault when they release a new chip thats barley any better than the ones that come before it. Not mine or anyone else's. Now your just typing for the sake if it.
 
Ayahuasca said:
The fault lies with yourself, you don't listen to reason or evidence.

Completely ignoring inflation and the price of the pound against the dollar for example and just saying "Well it costs more now so I don't care".

Judging a CPU on gaming performance alone is rather silly too, if that's all you use your machine for then fair enough but that doesn't make some of these new CPU's useless for everyone. A 5820k costs around the same as a 6700k and will destroy it in pretty much everything other than gaming and in games you'll be hard pressed to notice a difference. There's also tasks where Skylake is a good deal ahead of Haswell, emulation for example.

It's actually nice to have the option of the enthusiast platform for that kind of price or perhaps you could look at moving to the US if you want fair component pricing.
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Read threads much? :p
 
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