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First Look: Unreal Tournament 3 With PhysX

“Please explain to me how gameplay physics (only able to do this by Ageia PPUs if Ive read correctly) could be done adequately?.. surely the bandwidth required to send this information would saturate the upload/download”
Not sure how I can explain it. It’s not a problem in any of the current PPU games as far as I can tell, lots work in multiplayer without a problem. I don’t have a deep understanding of how physics effects bandwidth and I don’t have any numbers. All I know are current PPU games don’t have a problem.

A number of people keep say it should be a problem. But the games work online, surly that’s evidence enough?





“Perhaps Im being naive, but if the effect generated requires an actual PPU because a CPU/GPU can not do the effect how can this information be sent to the server/other players in real-time?”
Some of the effects require mass amounts of internal bandwidth but that’s only to process the data. Once it’s worked out internally it takes a tiny amount of bandwidth to send that data across the PCI bus. I assume also the internet.

The best answer I can give is look at current PPU multiplayer games and figure out how they work. I don’t know how they work my self. But if you want me to guess, I would assume one PC or server would use a PPU sending out data to the rest. I see no reason why a server could not have a PPU process all the explosions then the results are sent to all the PC connected. But I dont think this is how current PPU games work.
 
Perhaps a couple of people who have a Physx card could play a game online that contains gameplay physics and record both their FOVs of different player effected events to demonstrate if there are any differences.

I dont think Ive seen a review thats ever looked at the MP aspects of PPUs and considering the knock-on effects with gameplay physics it would be an interesting exercise...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
hes some pics of my cpu doing some high end cloth physx



i no its a tech demo but still as gd as iv seen a ppu do
 
mmm pottsey why are maybe 95% of your posts about ageia, physics x.
751 posts is it...thats a substantial amount even for a fan boy,
it seems to be you only pop up if anyone mentions that one item
 
Th3D0n still pictures are not much use to show physics in action, also there are no comparisons to doing this on a PhysX card to show if there is a noticable difference. Also your framerate on the first one is 23.2 fps which a lot of people consider unplayable and thats just doing one physics effect, imagine the level of performance if it had a whole game to run as well.

edit:
And your running norton :eek:, not the greatest security package.
 
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I've always said and will continue to say that the PPU is a complete and totaly waste of money and would still be even if it was only £5. Almost every single game I've seen looks worse with it than without, some perform worse too.

EDIT: Pottsey, why don't you use the quote feature?
 
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dbmzk1 said:
EDIT: Pottsey, why don't you use the quote feature?
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thats old, peopel should really move on with that. You lot make me laugh. pottsey doesnt and to my knowledge has never said anything that isnt gospel. he's no 'fanboy' and he's telling you lot how it is. again, and again, and again because apparently...... you've all got cloth ears. pun intended.


i could single people out and really make them look silly here but there's no point. suffice to say the people dishing out the insults and name calling are the very people who frankly know sod all and, strangely enough, are the most likely peopel to take sides in a debate without giving it any thought.
 
“also there are no comparisons to doing this on a PhysX card to show if there is a noticable difference. Also your framerate on the first one is 23.2 fps which a lot of people consider unplayable and thats just doing one physics effect,”
I think you’re missing understanding the screenshots. The 23.3fps is with the CPU. The next screenshots with the higher numbers are with the PPU. You can turn the PPU on and off for a comparison. Unless I miss read your post, your post is a classic case of someone looking at the lowest FPS and saying the PPU drops FPS and is considers it unplayable. It happens far too often for some reason.





“Almost every single game I've seen looks worse with it than without, some perform worse too.”
I still challenge people to find benchmarks showing the PPU to slow games down with the new drivers. Pretty much every benchmark shows the PPU is faster unless you get year+ old drivers with known performance problems.




“it seems to be you only pop up if anyone mentions that one item”
Well I used to have about 2000+ PowerVR posts before the wipe. I only post in threads that interest me, if you look back I am also in most PowerVR threads. That’s physics and tile based/deferred rendering cards. I don’t see any point in posting in tons of threads.
 
Pottsey said:
I think you’re missing understanding the screenshots. The 23.3fps is with the CPU. The next screenshots with the higher numbers are with the PPU. You can turn the PPU on and off for a comparison. Unless I miss read your post, your post is a classic case of someone looking at the lowest FPS and saying the PPU drops FPS and is considers it unplayable. It happens far too often for some reason.
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Actually if you read the screenshots theyre all software, assuming higher fps means it must be the PPU = bad? ;)

Also, my opinion on these physx cards is that if it had such a potential then the bigger companies would be making their own based around engines, but they're not, which is saying something. I'd rather not spend the 90+quid when its technology that could feasably be bought up and integrated into the next gen CPUs/GPUs.
 
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Jihad said:
That liquid looks awful. :confused:
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I thought it looked really good. Lol.

But Pottsey, I agree with what you're saying. It seems you post good facts but some people don't seem to take it in and then just slate the PPU for the fact it's rubbish. The PPU itself is not rubbish and like stated, I think the way it's been marketed is the reason for it's slow up take. The PPU in iteself is a great idea!
 
sam83uk said:
it makes me wonder.. playing online would be very network intense as data on 32 players 'destroying' the level would need to be filtered across to everyone playing
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idd, i always wanted a bf2 style game where you could leave c4 on pillars under large buildings and blow it to flatten tanks :(
Gutted
 
A PPU certainly could have a large impact in modern games if only it were implemented and marketing were on the ball.

Take for instance Bioshock. If it had PPU support, not only would its water be even more realistic, but it imagine for one minute if objects displaced the water, you walking through it displaced the water.

Or how about using telekenesis to pick up a fuel barrel and throwing it at someone, the barrel breaks open and petrol goes all over the person and surroundings (liquid simulation), you then whip out your gun or use that fire plasmid and set the person on fire.

The biggest problem is marketing, there isnt any.
 
Pottsey said:
“also there are no comparisons to doing this on a PhysX card to show if there is a noticable difference. Also your framerate on the first one is 23.2 fps which a lot of people consider unplayable and thats just doing one physics effect,”
I think you’re missing understanding the screenshots. The 23.3fps is with the CPU. The next screenshots with the higher numbers are with the PPU. You can turn the PPU on and off for a comparison. Unless I miss read your post, your post is a classic case of someone looking at the lowest FPS and saying the PPU drops FPS and is considers it unplayable. It happens far too often for some reason.
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The screen shots were all of cpu and he said it was as good as he'd seen any ppu. My point was that he hadn't included screenshots of a ppu running to do a fair comparison and back up his statement. Also the fact he suggested physx cards are of no use yet his screenshots showing cpu physics limitations.
 
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"Actually if you read the screenshots theyre all software,
Well that will teach me to post without my Glasses on. What can I say, I was wrong, miss read that last screenshot.
EDIT: Sorry for missreading your post johnno93. Now to go find my Glasses :) Not doing that again.



“physx cards is that if it had such a potential then the bigger companies would be making their own based around engines, but they're not, which is saying something”
But bigger companys have. ATI and Nvidia added hardware physics into the GPU only they have no game support. Havok does the API.





”Or how about using telekenesis to pick up a fuel barrel and throwing it at someone, the barrel breaks open and petrol goes all over the person and surroundings”
Been playing Infernal? Only replace fuel with wine barrels.
 
Pottsey said:
"Actually if you read the screenshots theyre all software,

“physx cards is that if it had such a potential then the bigger companies would be making their own based around engines, but they're not, which is saying something”
But bigger companys have. ATI and Nvidia added hardware physics into the GPU only they have no game support. Havok does the API.


.
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its all very well saying they have adopted it, etc. but how many GOOD physx games are there? and by that i mean games that get high in the charts, sell hundreds of thousands, AND with people using all of the physx features. You yourself said the physx changes to GRAW2 campaign (which is what 95% of people play) were minimal, and they are as ive seen it myself.

its fine with ageia pumping out tech demos, but tech demos dont sell. and if UT3 is a flop in terms of physx, then i duno, will they keep trying? no other blockbuster game being released is intending on using the ppu as far as i know, and i mean games like half life 2:ep2, portal, crysis, bioshock (already out) gears of war (you get my point)
 
“no other blockbuster game being released is intending on using the ppu as far as i know,“
We know there are some major developers like Bioware working on PPU games. But we don’t know what the names are. Is it Dragon Age or something else?





“and i mean games like half life 2:ep2, portal, crysis, bioshock (already out) gears of war (you get my point) “
Technically speaking Gears of War is a physx game :)
Ok being serious I agree with you. They need more good and great games. I thought by now a year later we would have 40+ games out not 20.
 
Pottsey said:
“and i mean games like half life 2:ep2, portal, crysis, bioshock (already out) gears of war (you get my point) “
Technically speaking Gears of War is a physx game :)
Ok being serious I agree with you. They need more good and great games. I thought by now a year later we would have 40+ games out not 20.
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i honestly cant even think of 20 ppu enabled games. the ones that come straight to me are city of heroes and graw2. memory going in my old age

edit: what are some of the others
 
Two Worlds doesnt use the PPU, it just uses the driver things

I still dont see what's so good about realistic cloth tearing or whatever, as tbh if youre in a fire-fight it really wouldnt make that much of a difference would it.. especially in MP games

The liquid in the UT vid posted earlier looks bad imo, id rather have normal physics than that.

And if tearing cloth etc slows the cpu right down, how come when i run the demo i get a solid 60fps without the ppu when it looks the same as vids ive seen with a ppu?
 
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