Football and the Coronavirus

[Journey]

A CEO from a random company speaks for the company and what is best for them. They want to make money so of course they are going to say something like "we need to be entertaining the country" lots of other sports are also entertaining and are cancelled that don't require huge numbers of players, and support staff moving around the country.

So yes other cancellations are completely relevant and do indicate when football could restart.

 

[BaZ87]

A CEO from a random company speaks for the company and what is best for them. They want to make money so of course they are going to say something like "we need to be entertaining the country" lots of other sports are also entertaining and are cancelled that don't require huge numbers of players, and support staff moving around the country.

So yes other cancellations are completely relevant and do indicate when football could restart.

He wasn't speaking for himself, he was relaying what the Premier League were being told by the government - the government want football to be played as soon as it's safe to do so. What was said was perfectly logical too - if we are set for a long period of some form of lockdown then having PL football on the TV will be very useful for the government.

And there is a degree of relevance to what other sporting events are doing but they're not entirely relevant and why you cannot draw simple comparisons. If sport was allowed to be played behind closed doors then that is the least bad option available to the PL however it may not be the least bad option for the Olympics and might not even be possible with limitations on travel etc. You only have to listen to boxing promoters to see that you cannot even draw comparisons between events within the same sport - the likes of Eddie Hearn has basically said that as soon as they're able to, he will be putting on events behind closed doors because broadcasters want content and fighters need paying however he's also said that the big fights will have to be delayed and he didn't directly say it but the reason being because gate money is needed to put these big fights on.

 

[Journey]

Money, money, money... You don't need to say more than that.

If you can run an entire league of people (how many is that?) playing games behind closed doors, you can run a tennis tournament behind closed doors too. So the same can be said of any sport, there is no sport in the UK other than Rugby that has the same requirements for the movement of people. Unless I forgot some, which may be possible.

Broadcasters want any live footage they can get, as they are losing (you guessed it) money hand over fist. They'd take live rock skimming if they could get it, advertising revenue is down, subscriptions are down, and they aren't getting back to normal any time soon.

I am pretty sure there were a few of those football managers etc. before the lockdown and cancellations happening saying things like, no one wants to play games behind closed doors, and it's not the same game with out a crowd, and many other things. Will they change their minds now and become hypocrites to pay the bills?

 

[BaZ87]

There's a difference between being able to do something and it being the best outcome for them @Journey. Providing there's limitless access for players from all over the world to travel to the UK then yes, you could hold Wimbledon behind closed doors but without crowds in attendance do they have the revenue to host the event without making a huge loss? Would delaying it to August not be a better solution for them if it were possible to have crowds in attendance by then? And if that isn't possible is cancelling it for the year the next best option? The challenges facing each different sport is completely different. As I've said, the challenges facing different events in the same sport are completely different.

And yes, broadcasters want sport but they have contracts in place and Sky aren't going to increase what they're paying for live coverage of Rugby because that's not the driver for sports subscriptions. They'd rather the League was cancelled and they get out of their financial commitments to the RFU.

And answering your question, yes. Somebody from the PFA has already come out and said that the feeling amongst players is changing and there's now an acceptance to playing behind closed doors. The Telegraph have quotes from Steve Bruce this afternoon talking about how the PL have to find a way to finish this season even if it means teams playing 3 times per week etc etc.

 

[Journey]

The entire conversation hinged around football not starting again until August+ since other sporting activities are also facing the same issues, namely a virus that cannot be contained with the large movements of people, be that players and key staff, or spectators.

Starting football behind closed doors in June might be on the cards, how many teams will agree to it, who knows, and how many insurance policies will be null and void if the government don't outright say go ahead and do this, and they won't they'll say something along the lines of, "We will not stop the leagues from continuing, however we would emphasise that they take all the necessary precautions to players and staff involved, and any security or medical services will need to be provided by the leagues involved."

Have all the players in the leagues stayed in the UK so far? If any of them haven't they'll face the same issues as other sports.

 

[BaZ87]

The entire coversation was based on you saying there's not likely to be football until August because other events have been cancelled. That was far too simplistic. Football will begin again earlier than the vast majority of other sports events, imo, there's too much money at stake and as we've heard, the government want it back ASAP to help them out.

 

[Journey]

The exact quote from him was
"He told BBC Radio Solent that "at the right time and when everybody was safe" the Premier League suspension could be lifted - assuming football does not use up urgent NHS or police resources."

When everybody is safe...

Semmens said: "When that moment has passed, the government would like us to get back to playing and they would like us to get back to playing because we are in entertainment and we would be a sign that the country is coming back to normal."

So as you can see he went on to comment using his own words, "When that moment has passed" being the actual important bit. The moment that everybody is safe...

So the government haven't said directly they want it back, a CEO of a football club said that is what they said but cited no one specific, again he's a CEO he's going to say that.

We can go around in circles all night, but Football isn't coming back before other sports just because a CEO said that in an interview.

 

[BaZ87]

The exact quote from him was
"He told BBC Radio Solent that "at the right time and when everybody was safe" the Premier League suspension could be lifted - assuming football does not use up urgent NHS or police resources."

When everybody is safe...

Semmens said: "When that moment has passed, the government would like us to get back to playing and they would like us to get back to playing because we are in entertainment and we would be a sign that the country is coming back to normal."

So as you can see he went on to comment using his own words, "When that moment has passed" being the actual important bit. The moment that everybody is safe...

So the government haven't said directly they want it back, a CEO of a football club said that is what they said but cited no one specific, again he's a CEO he's going to say that.

We can go around in circles all night, but Football isn't coming back before other sports just because a CEO said that in an interview.

The only reason for going round in circles will be due to you not understanding that you cannot compare football and more specifically the PL with every other sport. The government will determine when sport is allowed to resume and then every individual sport and organisation within those sports will decide when they resume. There is 1 billion reasons why the PL will do all it can resume at the earliest possibily opportunity, most other sports and events don't have that £1bn decision to make and why they're less likely to be in a rush to return, particularly behind closed doors. Your comparrison to the Olympics, Wimbledon and Rugby was far too simplistic, verging on nonsense.

And I'm not sure why you're bringing up the exact wording of Semmens comments, I said that the government want them to return asap - that obviously means when it's safe to do so and the government have allowed

 

[Journey]

The government have not made a public statement saying they want football back soon as possible that I can find, only that it should return when it is safe to do so.

ASAP makes it sound urgent and more important than any other sport, which only comes back to money, money, money. Nothing to do with the actual sport at all just the money, which is pathetic.

 

[BaZ87]

Ok, so you think he's lied. Whether the government have told the PL this or not (it is perfectly logical and would be odd of Semmens to lie about it but anyway) that comment only reinforced the point about why the PL is likely to return sooner. There are huge logisitical and financial reasons why the PL would be able and more likely to return sooner than other sports or major sporting events.

I understand that you don't like the commercialisation of sport, you've made that very clear, however that is the reality of the situation and as much as you don't like it, the financial well being of the PL will determine the survival of a number of lower and possibly non league clubs. I done a brief break down of the finances of PL clubs earlier in the thread and worst case scenario, a number of PL clubs are going to be in a very difficult position and if they are then you can forget about the PL giving hand outs to those in League 1 and 2.

 

[nicktay2605]

I agree with you to an extent Baz, I can see the commercial and financial pressures on football are greater than other sports and it would be good for everyone's spirits if we had some live sport to watch. However, getting games going again would be a logistical nightmare. You'd have to test players and staff every day prior to training, then prior to a game, then isolate them in a hotel along with all other people involved in the game (broadcast crew, ground staff, other necessary auxiliary staff), who would all also have to be tested (as would all the staff at the hotel).

It's feasible, but it would require a massive amount of regular testing to make sure that everyone is safe to play, and all it would take is someone involved getting Coronavirus to potentially shut the entire thing down again.

 

[omnomnom]

Youre acting like starting a new season doesnt have those complications. From chris Williams on twitter:

"Source at UEFA: leagues who void seasons could find it difficult to nominate UCL and UEL reps, ESPECIALLY if other leagues complete their comps. Non-completion could lead to non-qualification, could be seen that teams did not qualify if voided, brings coefficient issues also."

This season will not be voided.

 

[BaZ87]

I agree with you to an extent Baz, I can see the commercial and financial pressures on football are greater than other sports and it would be good for everyone's spirits if we had some live sport to watch. However, getting games going again would be a logistical nightmare. You'd have to test players and staff every day prior to training, then prior to a game, then isolate them in a hotel along with all other people involved in the game (broadcast crew, ground staff, other necessary auxiliary staff), who would all also have to be tested (as would all the staff at the hotel).

It's feasible, but it would require a massive amount of regular testing to make sure that everyone is safe to play, and all it would take is someone involved getting Coronavirus to potentially shut the entire thing down again.

If it wasn't clear, all the previous stuff was based on all medical hurdles being overcome. If it was safe for football to resume and all the testing etc was available then football will be able to react quicker and resume quicker than the Olympics or Wimbledon. Journey's initial argument was that football wouldn't be able to resume by x because the Olympics or Wimbledon are being cancelled/postponed. That comparison was far too simplistic both from a financial and logisitcal point of view. Yes there would be significant costs to delaying the Olympics but it wouldn't be a total write off compared to ending a football season - their revenue would be delayed where as a not concluding this season and or playing all of next season will be lost revenue for football leagues. Equally the logistics of holding a major event in a single City, with athletes and whoever else traveling from around the whole world is completely different. Nobody knows when sport will be able to resume and something like the Olympics/Wimbledon will need significant notice before they can hold their events - you cannot just turn around with 5-6 weeks notice and say we're starting now. The logistical challenges aren't there for PL sides. In football it's the norm for fixtures to be rearranged with a week or two's notice due to cup progress, tv changes etc. As soon as it's safe and possible to do so, football leagues (particularly the major leagues) are better prepared and have a significant financial motive to resume at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

[nicktay2605]

snip

Oh yeah I completely agree with you on that point, it's not really possible to compare football to other sports because financially and logistically it's very different, plus as you say football is used to calendar alterations and could feasibly start on far less notice than other sporting events (assuming the players have trained enough to be fit).

Youre acting like starting a new season doesnt have those complications. From chris Williams on twitter:

"Source at UEFA: leagues who void seasons could find it difficult to nominate UCL and UEL reps, ESPECIALLY if other leagues complete their comps. Non-completion could lead to non-qualification, could be seen that teams did not qualify if voided, brings coefficient issues also."

This season will not be voided.

I agree, the same challenges occur beginning next season as well. I think it's incredibly unlikely they void this season, and personally I think it would be really unfair as well. I think if less than 50% of the season had been completed then voiding the season would be the more reasonable suggestion, but as soon as they went over halfway, and particularly now that they're over 75% of the way through the season, voiding it just isn't sensible. If they can't get the rest of this season played then imo the most sensible outcome is to expand the PL to 22 teams (i.e. promote Leeds and West Brom and not have relegations this season), award Liverpool the title and give European spots to teams based on their existing position in the league. Yes, under this approach Sheffield United, Wolves, Spurs, and Arsenal are potentially losing out on a CL spot (particularly if City's ban is upheld) and Fulham miss out on potential promotion, but I don't see a better approach. However they do it there is going to be a team who is unhappy.

 

[rebel rebel]

Why promote Leeds and West Brom when all the teams down to 13th have a reasonable chance of reaching the playoffs?

 

[BaZ87]

Anything but failing to complete the season would leave League's open to legal challenges. If worst comes to worst and you cannot finish the season then Leagues will look at what's the least worst scenario ranging from 'as things stand' to voiding the season, with 1000 different variations in between. The scenario put forward by @nicktay2605 was actually talked up by Brighton's CEO in an interview right at the start of this - the only grey area he left was around European spots but 'as things stand' or points per game would be the logical way to decide that. The legal risks around relegating a side without the league being concluded (either by playing all games or some sort of play-off) would be huge as would not promoting Leeds and West Brom. The 3rd promotion spot is a minefield though and with it being nigh on impossible to pick a 3rd side due to the fact that the EFL have play-offs and the difficulties of having a 23 team PL next season would probably result in there being no 3rd promoted side.

On a separate note. Something nobody really talks about is the potential for the virus to rear its head again at some point during 'next season', whenever that might be. Until there's a vaccine there's a very real possibility that this issue is going to be with us (on and off) for over 12 months meaning, hypothetically, we could end this season early and get half way through next season and be back in the same position.

 

[adam cool dude]

If anything I think they should write off next season. Finish the season where possible then decide on what to do with next season. Perhaps ditch both FA and League cup. Champions League and Europa League could go into knockouts in neutral venues when out of the group stage. Would cut the amount of games quite considerably.

 

[rebel rebel]

When did the FA Cup lose all its credibility?

 

[Moothead2]

When did the FA Cup lose all its credibility?

It's a domestic cup, they're inherently disposable in these situations. European competitions require input from a dozens of leagues and teams as well as a handful of governing bodies, a domestic cup doesn't.

 

[HangTime]

About 20 years ago when teams started withdrawing from it due to world club championship or whatever, and the CL expanded to take more and more teams from England.

One slightly weird thing to come out of this is that I've found that I'm not really missing football that much. Last game I attended was the last-gasp loss to Olympiacos aka Coronavirus love-in :/. Maybe it is just because lots else has changed, not going into the office so not in a position for football chat/banter anyway.