Formula 1: Refuelling to return in 2017

benhaha85 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32751118

Glad to see the teams being able to make their own tyre choices from next season.

Surely refuelling will only matter if they get rid of the fuel flow restriction?
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They're currently restricted by how much fuel they can start the race with and how much they can use per second. By getting rid of the need to start with all their fuel, I'm guessing they can run at the maximum allowable rate all race should they wish, so in theory they should have more power available more of the time..
 
Chances of these changes actually materialising before someone argues against them, or they get delayed because something can't be agreed on? :o

Some hippy will be along to say it's not good for the environment to go through more fuel or have more tyres on tap.
 
I agree with the Refuelling but not how teams can pick there tires, which I think is silly.
I don't see the FIA giving the ok to the tire choice as Pirelli don't want it and they give $40ml a year to F1 in advertising.
 
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Full statement:
The Formula One Strategy Group met yesterday in Biggin Hill to exchange views on the current challenges that F1 faces. Besides the statuary members of the Group, representatives of the engine manufacturers were also invited.

The Strategy Group members have debated a number of levers aimed at improving the show. An initial series of measures has been voted:

For 2016:
– Free choice of the two dry tyre compounds (out of four) that each team can use during the race weekend

For 2017:
– Faster cars: 5 to 6 seconds drop in lap times through aerodynamic rules evolution, wider tyres and reduction of car weight
– Reintroduction of refuelling (maintaining a maximum race fuel allowance)
– Higher revving engines and increased noise
– More aggressive looks

A few other measures have also been discussed but require further investigation before they can be implemented:
– A global reflection on race weekend format
– Measures to make starts only activated by the driver without any outside assistance

Furthermore, in light of the various scenarios presented by the independent consulting company mandated by the F1 Strategy Group, at the initiative of the FIA, to work on the reduction of costs and following a constructive exchange, a comprehensive proposal to ensure the sustainability of the sport has emerged.

The Strategy Group member Teams have committed to refine it in the next few weeks, in consultation with the other teams involved in the championship. On the engine side, it has been decided that stability of the rules should prevail in consideration of the investments of the manufacturers involved in the sport and to give visibility to potential new entrants. The allowance for a 5th engine to be used during the 2015 season has been rejected.

This constructive meeting between the FIA, FOM and the Teams has allowed paving the way for the future of the championship. All parties agreed to work together with an intention to firm up these proposals and submit them to the approval of the F1 Commission and the World Motor Sport Council of the FIA as soon as possible for implementation.
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Not refuelling again... :(
Yeah, what we need is more people back in the pit box area. :rolleyes:

Still seem to be limited to 100kg of fuel which is a good start, but higher revving engines means more fuel flow will be needed. The engines are limited to 16k rpm at the moment, but don't get that high due to the lack of fuel flow available.

I've no problems with the independent tyre choice though. How far in advance to they need to choose? It takes time to make the tyres and get them to the location.

Wider rear tyres coming. Good.

Reduction in car weight... errr... didn't they just put that up to balance out the heavier power units and to stop the drivers from starving themselves to keep their weight down and to allow larger drivers to have a chance of a drive rather than just going for midgets?
 
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Did I read a different article to everyone else?

There will still be a limit to how much fuel can be used, there will still be a fuel flow limit. Based on that i'd expect as much, if not more, fuel saving going on as any fuel saved will translate directly into time saved in the pits. After a few races everyone will have converged on the fastest strategy, be copying each other and we'll be back where we are now.
 
Are all you guys 5 years old?

Have you forgotten the utterly boring processional races with refuelling we used to have? When the average number of overtakes was 1 per driver per race! And 35 second pit stops mean its just a race defined by the strategiests and the drivers just trundle round in single file waiting to be called in? Refulling was rubbish.

Banning refueling in 2010 single handedly doubled the number of on track overtakes. It made a bigger improvement in the number of overtakes than both DRS and Pirelli tyres combined. Banning refuling was the single best thing to happen to F1 in the last 15 years.

And now its back. Oh god why.

Oh, and with the fuel allowance remaining, they will still have to conserve fuel anyway!

In a list of stuff that made a lot of sense, refuling is a massive turd on top of an otherwise quite nice looking pizza.

:rolleyes:

Oh and on the tyres, I think they are actually proposing exactly what people asked for. Its badly worded, but I don't think they are saying teams can chose any tyre, I think they are saying that Pirelli will still bring just 2 to each race, but that the teams can run whichever they chose at whichever point, with no need to use both in the race or link the race and qualifying. Which is a very good idea.
 
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Pirelli can't be too happy, logistically more challenging and also if any of the teams stuff up their choices Pirelli will still receive negative PR.

Wonder if teams will have to qualify with the amount of fuel they start with, like yesteryear. Back to the future.

Also, 100kg limit hasn't been mandated. Could quite easily be increased with their wording, fuel flow limit will almost certainly rise.

I'm assuming packaging of the PU and associated materials will become much lighter, hence lower kerb weight.

Wish they would just simplify aero regs (front wing) and allow some more mechanical grip, which they've partly done with wider rear tyres.
 
kaiowas said:
Did I read a different article to everyone else?

There will still be a limit to how much fuel can be used, there will still be a fuel flow limit. Based on that i'd expect as much, if not more, fuel saving going on as any fuel saved will translate directly into time saved in the pits. After a few races everyone will have converged on the fastest strategy, be copying each other and we'll be back where we are now.
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No. I got pretty much the same from it.

Plus, pretty much no action on track as it'll be easier and less risky to overtake in the pits instead. Just as it was in the previous refuelling era.
 
Shimmy said:
Also, 100kg limit hasn't been mandated. Could quite easily be increased with their wording, fuel flow limit will almost certainly rise.
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Increasing the fuel flow limit but keeping the fuel allowance the same would encourage more efficient engines and better energy recovery, which could work well.

Flibster said:
No. I got pretty much the same from it.

Plus, pretty much no action on track as it'll be easier and less risky to overtake in the pits instead. Just as it was in the previous refuelling era.
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Thank god, someone else has a memory longer than a goldfish! I thought I'd wandered into a parallel dimension there for a moment!
 
Wider tyres good.

Refuelling... meh not fussed either way personally - most casual fans complained the extra strategy was too hard to follow, and it won't mean they're leaning on the tyres any harder, which I assume is half of the idea behind it.

Lighter cars... err... we've just gone heavier because lighter cars means taller drivers are struggling to find drives. Make your mind up.

"More aggressive looks" worries the heck out of me. F1 isn't often beautiful, but the "more aggressive looks" of the winglet era was the least beautiful of any era in my opinion. It was damn ugly.

As for aerodynamics, please do it properly. Leave complexity behind as that only hinders a car being able to follow another. Use ground effect if possible, or if not do something where 5+ tier front wings aren't needed.



Flibster said:
Still seem to be limited to 100kg of fuel which is a good start, but higher revving engines means more fuel flow will be needed. The engines are limited to 16k rpm at the moment, but don't get that high due to the lack of fuel flow available.
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I thought it was more due to the energy recovery and turbo providing more torque lower down the range, so there wasn't any benefit in running at higher revs (with the added advantage of using less fuel)?

In which case they're not going to suddenly start using more revs as surely all of the grunt will still be further down the range?

I'm fairly ignorant in this area so the above might be entirely made up though! :D
 
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this_is_gav said:
I thought it was more due to the energy recovery and turbo providing more torque lower down the range, so there wasn't any benefit in running at higher revs (with the added advantage of using less fuel)?

In which case they're not going to suddenly start using more revs as surely all of the grunt will still be further down the range?

I'm fairly ignorant in this area so the above might be entirely made up though! :D
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Its a bit of a chicken and egg. The engines are optimised to use the turbo's and ERS lower down the rev range because the fuel flow means theres little point in going above about 12k, and then in turn theres little point going above 12k because the ERS and turbo aren't optimised to work up there.
 
Skeeter said:
Thank god, someone else has a memory longer than a goldfish! I thought I'd wandered into a parallel dimension there for a moment!
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Add to that the teams will have to buy and transport 22 refuelling rigs around the world *that's just one per car too, they'd have spares*. I thought they were trying to lower costs?

Oh, and the potential for loose fuel with high voltage hybrid systems. Sounds fun...
 
"For 2017:
– Faster cars: 5 to 6 seconds drop in lap times through aerodynamic rules evolution, wider tyres and reduction of car weight"


Love to know how they're going to reduce weight and be 5-6 seconds faster.
UNLES it's back to 2004 with the V10s oh yes :D
 
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