Formula 1: Refuelling to return in 2017
- Thread starter benhaha85
- Start date
Sounds like a gimmick, like when they forced everyone to start qualifying on race fuel and then gave them credits back.
You'd just see everyone doing 10 full pace reconnaissance laps to the grid before the race using super rich fuel mixtures to burn the fuel off. Plus the reason the FIA got rid of that rule in qualifying was because it didn't look very 'green' to have the whole F1 grid deliberately wasting fuel. They are hardly going to bring something like that back now.
You'd just see everyone doing 10 full pace reconnaissance laps to the grid before the race using super rich fuel mixtures to burn the fuel off. Plus the reason the FIA got rid of that rule in qualifying was because it didn't look very 'green' to have the whole F1 grid deliberately wasting fuel. They are hardly going to bring something like that back now.
Soldato
Of course not - they had no bearing on how Ferrari made their engines, they just designed the cars around them and chucked them in the back.
Red Bull almost have it the other way around, to the point where it backfired horribly this season.
But Marussia got their engines for free and Ferrari had around £30m invested in them. They were more closely tied to Ferrari than RBR have ever been to Renault.
RBR are not a works team. They are not an engine manufacturer. Yes they have strong ties with Renault, but they are not designing and building the engines, and have only really had a strong ties in place in the last couple of years.
There are only 2 manufacturer teams on the grid, Mercedes and Ferrari, and even they have their engine development departments very much separate. I think Mercedes HPP is actually a completely separate company from the AMG Mercedes F1 team.
So going back to your original point, no, you don't 'need' to be a manufacturer to be competing for points. Teams can (and have been) fully competitive while being customers. The issue with customer chassis is the rate of in season development and how this would be controlled or made fair for customers if the manufacturer of the chassis also ran its own team.
Maybe there is a case for the LMP2 structure, where you cannot be both a manufacturer and team owner?
Soldato
I highly doubt that Marussia had any influence whatsoever on Ferrari's designs or development...
Anyway, how come Marussia apparently still owed Ferrari £15.2m as they went into administration?
Red Bull had full a full works deal from 2011, but even before that they developed the exhaust blown diffuser together.
Anyway, how come Marussia apparently still owed Ferrari £15.2m as they went into administration?
Red Bull had full a full works deal from 2011, but even before that they developed the exhaust blown diffuser together.
Caporegime
What about Mclaren & Williams in the 80s & 90s ? or Red Bull in the post 2009 years ? or Mclaren in the noughties ? In the past 15 years only 5 different teams have won the championship, and one of them was Brawn which was essentially Mercedes by a different name so really its only 4.
if you go further back, past the year 2000, in the 20 year period from 1980 to 2000, only 4 different teams (Ferrari, Mclaren, Benneton, Williams) won the constructors championship. You have to go back to the 60s to find a time when the winning constructor changed all the time. Was 80s and 90s F1 racing so boring ?? Course not.
The fact that one constructor always wins for a few years in a row is not what has made F1 boring.
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Soldato
refuelling is not the issue. the issue is competitive racing.
as it stands it's too predictable who will win thus no interest. I have stopped watching F1 regularly for the last 2 seasons as it is such a bore. I also didn't watch it during the Schumacher era. best season I have seen recently was 2009 when Webber, Vettel and Alsonso were fighting for 1st until last race of the season
if you don't have races where at least 5 or 6 drivers have a realistic chance of winning the race then I am not interested. I am not alone since viewing figures over the last few years reflect that sentiment
as it stands it's too predictable who will win thus no interest. I have stopped watching F1 regularly for the last 2 seasons as it is such a bore. I also didn't watch it during the Schumacher era. best season I have seen recently was 2009 when Webber, Vettel and Alsonso were fighting for 1st until last race of the season
if you don't have races where at least 5 or 6 drivers have a realistic chance of winning the race then I am not interested. I am not alone since viewing figures over the last few years reflect that sentiment
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So you've had no interest in F1 for the last few decades then? Other than a blip at the start of 2012.
Soldato
Which universe were you watching the 2009 season in???
Soldato
Soldato
sry meant 2010 season. will you be able to get a good night's sleep now?
***edit***
By the way, what was with the ninja edit from "you happy?" to "will you be able to get a good night's sleep now?"....you feel like you really needed the extra nine words to get across how pouty you were feeling?
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Team principals unanimously agree on something sensible for a change.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-unite-against-refuelling-return-plan
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-unite-against-refuelling-return-plan
Soldato
F1 has become predictable. Things need to change. Lets hope that something can be agreed that will make the sport more unpredictable!!
Soldato
But when have we had unpredictability? We've had unreliability in the past, but this is probably the most unreliable the cars have been since the early-mid 2000s.
I'd argue the only time we've had genuinely unbelievable occurrences in the recent past is when we had Bridgestone vs Goodyear (and to a lesser extent Bridgestone vs Michelin), but with the odd exception (Imola 2005, 2006, Suzuka 2005 and...erm...) the races weren't any better than they are now. Force India at Spa in 2009 is down to a very specific set of circumstances and they almost had the best package that weekend. Wet races are great, and we've had the random sprinkler banded about since the dawn of time seemingly, but when random becomes the norm the special factor is lost and it moves away from sport and becomes bland entertainment, and personally I want to watch sport first and foremost.
The last time a driver made up the difference consistently... err... 1999 with Frentzen was awesome, but that was as much down to Hakkinen and Irvine trying their best to throw things away. 1993 in a few races with Senna and Barrichello at Donington. Other than that I guess you're scrabbling around with races like Silverstone 1987, Schumacher's epic drive at the Hungaroring in 1998 and Alonso's staggering performance all weekend at Singapore in 2008 before you begin looking past the turbo years.
Protecting what you've got - well, those seeds were sown back in 2011 or so when they first really starting getting into the current trend of tyre management. From now on that will be there forever - unable to pass a car? Save the tyres and/or fuel. Having a close grid is great, but he drawback is having one where cars struggle to overtake... and thus one where saving the car, tyres and fuel becomes the priority in order to make up the difference later in the race.
We've had the tyre protection in the past, we've done fuel saving in the mid-80s. Car saving in the turbo era, 70s, 60s and 50s. F1 has always been about conserving something. The issue now is it's so much more transparent than it used to be - we know about a car problem long before it manifests itself. That's fine for the purist, but less so for those merely looking to be entertained.
you what?
You mean like the first half of 2012, for example? Where everyone was complaining F1 was a lottery and too unpredictable
.