Free weights VS machines

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cmsbfent

cmsbfent

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Hey folks..

Just after a couple of your opinions. Now I know as fact that free weights is so much more beneficial than machine training but my gym seriously lacks in the free weight department meaning that I have to use machines for everything.

Now, before joining this gym, at uni I had a bench set up in the houses basement which me and a few mates used about 3 times a week. On this, I managed to get to 62.5kg for 3 sets of 10, on the benchpress.

Not too bad, but then I finished uni and eventually joined the gym. When I first started, I set the bench machine to the same weight, and managed the same 3x10. Wouldn't say it was harder or easier, just very different.

Anywho, 8 months on and yesterday I managed to squeeze out 3x10 at 107kg. I've got to this number with steady increments over the year. Question is though, how do you think this number would compare if I went back to free weight?

I know its machine dependant so a definate answer is not really posible, but I was just talking to a uni chum who asked how the gym was going. I guessed around the 75-85kg range would be the case. Anyone else gone from machine to free weight who can shed some light?

Cheers
 
When you transition from machines to free weights, you should work with free weights in parallel with your machine routine for a little while, at a lower weight than you would use on the machines. The reason for that is because all the minor supporting muscles need training up, which aren't utilised to nearly the same extent on the machine - dive in too fast, and you run the risk of losing control and seriously injuring yourself.
 
It would be nothing like doing free weights, you would have to drop the weight significantly to start with.

Also, remember that there is no need to go from machines to freeweights and then forget about machines. machines have their place in the gym (inc smith!) and in everyones routines :]
 
Machines will never be as good as free weights when trying to put on muscle. Machines are locked to one movement and don't need to use of your stabilizing muscles to do them.
 
Robert1986 said:
Machines will never be as good as free weights when trying to put on muscle. Machines are locked to one movement and don't need to use of your stabilizing muscles to do them.
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Indeed they dont use all the stabalising muscles, instead they use more of the target muscle, effectively working it harder.
Hammer machines (particularly the ISO stuff) are rather fantastic imo, hell, even Dorian Yates used to promote certain machines (because he liked them rather than just for money).
A good mix of the 2 would be my recommendation :]
 
With regards to the smith machines.... I can always have someone spotting my bench presses... am I better off using the smith machine, or dropping to a slightly lesser weight, or dont push to failure?
 
A[L]C;11781824 said:
With regards to the smith machines.... I can always have someone spotting my bench presses... am I better off using the smith machine, or dropping to a slightly lesser weight, or dont push to failure?
Click to expand...

I drop the weight and don't put the clamps on; then worst comes to worst you won't end up painfully rolling the bar off yourself.
 
The thing that will "get you" is the balance and the core stability that you need with free weights that you don't get with machines. I tend to go as a rule that you have to drop 20kg from the machine weight - but that's taking into consideration a good core and good technique on bench already.
 
Not seen a "hammer machine". Without googling is it an alternative to a Zotman?
Incidently, machines are good for confidence and those with injurys if you don't have a training partner.
 
Crikey! I was way off. Hammer Strength - Iso Lateral Front Lat Pulldown. Heavy price too.
Edit: There is also a hammer shoulder machine as well as a bench press.
 
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i wont read everything here but ill relay an experience that i have just had this week. My ex-training partner, who moved away for a new job, came back this week for a half term visit (hes a teacher). We used to train hard and heavy all free weights, but we were beginners. Ever since he's been away he has been on the phone ramming the benefits of smith machines down my throat. Now i happen to know the truth is he is scared of heavy lifting without safety equipment, ie he doesnt trust himself. So, i gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he would have hit the weight really hard with the secure feeling of knowing he was relativley secure. Sure enough he turned up and was looking big, hes a touch smaller than me height wise and lacks, we found out later, about 2in on average all over on me, stop sniggering at the back!

So i decide it would be a good idea to test the water, he was always a strong bencher and since i didnt want to intimidate him i kicked things off with flat bench, chins and dips. As expected he kept up amicably on bench press for a set of (DB) 30x7 30x10 35x7 35x7 30x8. In the bodyweight exercises he dominated again (he's a good 1.5 stone lighter). Then i ramped things up by squatting, he squats in a smith and boasts impressive numbers on the vertical leg press. I squat to a crumpled box 2 feet from the floor. I do 105 for 4x8 he fails on 90 and rolls back to 60kg to finish the set. Interestingly the bar was hurting his traps and his lower back hurt too. Chalk one up to free weight.

We go on to deadlift, this is a no go, i warm up with 140 x 10 and he wont even compete he does 120 for 8 and calls it quits, says he doesnt want to risk it.... :rolleyes:

Next its incline flyes, heres the kicker, he goes on about doing the full stack on his weights machine pec dec. An impressive 75kg. Its one of those with the pivoting grips too so harder than most. He nearly rips his arm off attempting my warm up of 17.5kg for 8 and drop to 10kg which he JUST gets out for 3x8 (perfect form ensured mind, straight arms) he is blown away by a set of 20kgx6 that i manage.

I suggest a set of dips, stupidly, as i only manage 3. Fully expecting a competetive comeback, he fails to do a single dip. We finish up with bicep curls and i stay a good 10kg ahead rep for rep.

I lecture him about his lack of core strength and his inability to tackle complex heavy lifts . He is still mostly ignorant (heck his diet is awful) but i hope he learned something, because i did. Before this encounter i would never have known for sure whether machines of FW were truly the way to go. But this has given me iron clad conviction that for genuine quality you need freeweights. If you train with unassisted weight you will be bigger and stronger than anyone using machines. Fact!
 
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I understand what you are saying, but why was he 10kg behind you on biceps and unable to do dips? Presumably he wasn't using a machine for biceps (or was he). As regards the dips wasn't it because he didn't dip or in all exercises, because he relied on machines-he just didn't have the energy?
 
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Interesting either way. It would be useful by way of comparison to see if there are other examples.
 
Personally I think that one should always feel comfortable carrying out any excersise, be that because you are experienced, or because you have a competent trainer. In fact, I feel that feeling safe when performing an action that, if incorrectly carried out could cause injury, is imperitive.

Starting someone on chest flies at 17.5kg for instance, when they don't regularly perform the excersise and may never have, was folly in the first place, but I digress from my original point.

I think its safe to say that performing any resistance excersise along a single, fixed plane of movement will limit how effectively you can target those muscles that would otherwise support the movement. However, once these support muscles are fatigued, the major muscle you are targetting may not be. Machines would then allow you to load said muscles with a greater weight, and cause greater hypertrophy, without the fear of the supporting muscles failure, causing bad form.

I don't personally believe that any routine, or any trainer, who is unwilling to explore ALL avenues available to them, will ever reach their goals and surpass them. If you limit yourself to machines then I don't doubt even slightly that your growth will be limited. I also doubt that someone who allows themselves to be blinkered by any particular type of training, such as free weights will reach a level that those open to all methods could attain.

I've rambled, so I'll say it simply. Machines can be dangerous if they force you to carry out a resistance excersise that goes against a good bio-mechanical position. They can also limit the development of stabilising muscles.
But used to fully overload larger muscle groups, they can be effective and gaining mass you might otherwise not achieve. They are also excellent as an introduction to weight bearing excercise, and can help you keep good form when performing high rep circuits.

Ant :cool:
 
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