Freely TV

[Tavis75]

I think for me to be interested it really needs a set-top box with recording features, I use a projector for all my TV viewing so a new TV is not really an option (though 110" TVs are getting cheaper...) I also have basically not watched live TV since around 2000 when I got TiVo, so if it only does live TV it is kind of pointless to me personally.

I currently use Plex as a PVR which has a standard TV style EPG but uses a stream rather than a broadcast, with the stream coming from a HDHomeRun Freeview tuner which converts the incoming Freeview signal into a stream that I can access from any device on my network (with a suitable app), so in theory if a system like that could just access the Freely stream rather than needing the HDHomeRun and Freeview signal then that would be ideal, but I can't see that happening officially, hopefully someone will find a way though!

 

[chaparral]

I just made a thread, and then noticed this one lol

as someone who doesn't have an aerial point in all the bedrooms, and starting to wonder if paying £72 for sky stream is sensible I'm looking forward to it

Hopefully they'll have a google app for the chromecast. In fact, so long as the TV guide is decent, I think my mind is already made up

The UK's leading public service broadcasters set to evolve free TV for the streaming age

New service from UK PSBs will deliver live free TV via IP

www.bbc.com

What is Freely? The new BBC, ITV, C4 and C5 on demand service explained | Stuff

A new British live TV/catch-up service is here. We've tried Freely - here's how to get it, and what content to expect.

www.stuff.tv

Looks like you need to replace all the TV's in the house to get this (Which for me there no way that going to be happening anytime soon)

Set for launch in 2024, the new service, called Freely, will be built-in to the next generation of smart TVs and feature a line-up of public service broadcaster content and other free-to-air channels.

Why can't they just release an app for smart TV's that are already out. Guessing this is just another way for them to force people to buy all new TV's for the house

 

[glenimp617]

Looks like you need to replace all the TV's in the house to get this (Which for me there no way that going to be happening anytime soon)



Why can't they just release an app for smart TV's that are already out. Guessing this is just another way for them to force people to buy all new TV's for the house

forgot about this

Virgin media bought out our internet provider so we were forced to move across to them. They sent us a free virgin stream box at the weekend, freeview over broadband with the usual catch-up services, apps and whatnot. It's actually very good, in fact I think I prefer it to sky stream. Plus there's no monthly cost for it.

 

[chaparral]

forgot about this

Virgin media bought out our internet provider so we were forced to move across to them. They sent us a free virgin stream box at the weekend, freeview over broadband with the usual catch-up services, apps and whatnot. It's actually very good, in fact I think I prefer it to sky stream. Plus there's no monthly cost for it.

Thanks, But we can't get Virgin media were i live (channel islands)

 

[LuckyBenski]

Why can't they just release an app for smart TV's that are already out. Guessing this is just another way for them to force people to buy all new TV's for the house

Freeview/Freely have no incentive to force people to buy TVs. Freely is a new platform with the idea that it will phase in over time as people replace their existing TVs.

TBH our broadband infrastructure nationwide probably isn't prepared to carry the load of all of our TV broadcast just yet.

 

[Gimpymoo]

Freeview/Freely have no incentive to force people to buy TVs. Freely is a new platform with the idea that it will phase in over time as people replace their existing TVs.

TBH our broadband infrastructure nationwide probably isn't prepared to carry the load of all of our TV broadcast just yet.

That makes no sense.

People use apps on their TV which use the same bandwidth.

Some have no aerial connected and use IP streams exclusively.

 

[LuckyBenski]

That makes no sense.

People use apps on their TV which use the same bandwidth.

Some have no aerial connected and use IP streams exclusively.

But if everyone was "forced" to buy a Freely TV tomorrow and switch to IP for all their live TV viewing... That would be an immense increase in bandwidth demand.

Broadcast TV consists of something like 120Mbps continuous bandwidth, nationwide. This would be 120Mbps minimum on every broadband trunk in the country, 24/7. Plus the fact it's not multicast yet so would be duplicated hugely.

 

[Gimpymoo]

But if everyone was "forced" to buy a Freely TV tomorrow and switch to IP for all their live TV viewing... That would be an immense increase in bandwidth demand.

Broadcast TV consists of something like 120Mbps continuous bandwidth, nationwide. This would be 120Mbps minimum on every broadband trunk in the country, 24/7. Plus the fact it's not multicast yet so would be duplicated hugely.

A few questions if you do not mind and are able to oblige.

Is there a pre-defined standard for quality across all Freely streams or is it simply upto the broadcaster?

Does the broadcaster feed a raw strean into Freely who then handle the encoding etc and distribute out or do the broadcasters have direct access to the Freely platform?

What is the lag/delay between a Freeview feed and an average Freely stream side by side?

Appreciate any input. Thanks.

 

[LuckyBenski]

Is there a pre-defined standard for quality across all Freely streams or is it simply upto the broadcaster?

Streams are delivered through DASH so it's adaptive based on the connection. At present it's just the PSBs so typically they've got quite good streams to use. Have asked for confirmation on the quality requirements.

Does the broadcaster feed a raw strean into Freely who then handle the encoding etc and distribute out or do the broadcasters have direct access to the Freely platform?

So this is where the complexity came in - do we require each broadcaster to provide a ready to use IP stream (will be varying standards and encoding types, plus some smaller providers probably don't have the technology stack to provide such a stream to us). Or do we offer to encode and host everything ourselves so we are the central hub? This is not something we do currently (all broadcast is handled by the multiplex operators and the operators of the actual transmitters). We'd be on the hook for a huge hardware stack and also the distribution i.e. CDNs and cacheing etc.

So the decision was made to let each provider supply a link to their stream that meets our platform spec. This link is then integrated into the backend so TVs can be directed toward the stream individually. This is the reason smaller providers aren't on the platform yet - they often don't have the technology in place to provide a fully scalable IP stream and distribution. It's akin to recreating the UK transmitter network (which is pretty massive and advanced compared to e.g. America's quite crappy system), over the internet.

What is the lag/delay between a Freeview feed and an average Freely stream side by side?

I believe there's typically 20-30 seconds latency between broadcast and IP channels and that's pretty normal. There are unavoidable delays in encoding, transcoding, cacheing and distributing video packets over IP. The same as there are delays between SD and HD channels due to denser encode/decode. And the same way there was a delay between analogue and digital. Work continues to bring the latency down but it will never be zero. Not least, the TV itself needs a small buffer of content stored in order to start playback.

 

[Gimpymoo]

That is a superb response, thank you very much.

I still think the implementation is a "missed opportunity", HOWEVER, I do now understand it is the first step of many many steps. As you say, recreating the transmitter network.

The problem is, we are taking something which was once mostly "independent" to now being something which is centrally managed and there are still many questions to solve before the whole problem is answered.

 

[LuckyBenski]

That is a superb response, thank you very much.

I still think the implementation is a "missed opportunity", HOWEVER, I do now understand it is the first step of many many steps. As you say, recreating the transmitter network.

The problem is, we are taking something which was once mostly "independent" to now being something which is centrally managed and there are still many questions to solve before the whole problem is answered.

Yes. And I do agree with your previous comment that this might be a generation late - TV has a long long history and the current digital infrastructure is modelled after its analog predecessor. A lot of the industry is based on existing ways of doing things because TVs ideally should "just work" and should never really stop working (unless they're decades old maybe).

But in reality people, especially young people, are much more app focused and much less revolving around the live broadcast/TV Guide concept.

Interestingly a big push right now is the channel providers wanting to add their live streams into their existing VOD apps. So that is another route for viewers to get live channels without a TV guide or central channel list.

 

[pepp77]

Looks like you need to replace all the TV's in the house to get this (Which for me there no way that going to be happening anytime soon)



Why can't they just release an app for smart TV's that are already out. Guessing this is just another way for them to force people to buy all new TV's for the house

My Panasonic TV had an update recently (its about 2-3 years old) it now says its a TiVo TV with Freely. Not gonna use it as I have Sky for the sports anyway so will continue to use that.

In terms of no recording on the new system as long as you can mark/save programs so they can be found easily then no recording shouldn't be an issue as it can just do what sky does and stream the "recording" from your playlist when you want to watch.

 

[LuckyBenski]

Is there a pre-defined standard for quality across all Freely streams or is it simply upto the broadcaster?

Have asked for confirmation on the quality requirements.

The specification defines a MAXIMUM resolution for the lowest quality representation i.e. it requires a low quality stream always be available to ensure no buffering in houses with poor/contended internet.

Then...

Content Providers are STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to provide additional and higher quality encodings

Possibly that's enough techie detail for now I note several new brands should be hitting the market soon.

 

[Gimpymoo]

A reasonably priced Freely STB/HDMI stick would be acceptable at this point.

 

[adidan]

So to get Freely 'free' you have to buy a new TV?

Jog on.

 

[Tavis75]

My Panasonic TV had an update recently (its about 2-3 years old) it now says its a TiVo TV with Freely. Not gonna use it as I have Sky for the sports anyway so will continue to use that.

In terms of no recording on the new system as long as you can mark/save programs so they can be found easily then no recording shouldn't be an issue as it can just do what sky does and stream the "recording" from your playlist when you want to watch.

There are a couple of issue with the lack of recording, obviously some sort of multi-app watch list helps, rather than having to deal with multiple apps, but there's still the situation of unskippable ads and the limited lifetime of things being available, I know a lot of on demand stuff only used to be available for a week, but maybe they have improved that, but I believe it still tops out at 30 days for most stuff.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Is Freely IP range/country restricted?

I currently watch U.K. TV using a Freesat box and being able to record programs is vital for us as just about everything we want to want watch is on during the 9-10pm slot.

 

[pepp77]

There are a couple of issue with the lack of recording, obviously some sort of multi-app watch list helps, rather than having to deal with multiple apps, but there's still the situation of unskippable ads and the limited lifetime of things being available, I know a lot of on demand stuff only used to be available for a week, but maybe they have improved that, but I believe it still tops out at 30 days for most stuff.

I was also wrong about my TV, it was just a TiVo Update, no idea why I thought it was also a freely update.

 

[Gimpymoo]

Not sure if my home setup is representative of many others but I do think it is becoming more common.

I "cut the cable" four or five years ago. Previously been with the local Cable TV cartel and Sky but ultimately, found myself watching less TV so no need for 500 channels and it offered little to no value for money.

Our consumption is a combination of PC connected to main TV, ROKU boxes and simply the TV apps at a push.

We have an aerial and a satellite dish on the house, all the cables going inside the house have been cut over the years due to decoration or just not needing them.

We have six televisions in the house. Contemplated getting aerial points installed but it all seemed expensive and pointless as nobody watches linear TV anyway so they all rely on VOD.

The only "live" TV I watch is breakfast TV, news and sports events. Gave up on ITV as they insist on putting adverts pre-stream for a live stream of a commercial channel, and their whole platform is anti consumer anywayin my opinion.

The bigger discussion I think is, is linear TV dead/dying and why this approach which is a halfway house.

 

[moogle]

Sounds good but should have been done when SMART TVs were coming to the market. Seems a little wasteful to need a new TV just for this. The freeview/youview and set top boxes seem like they'll be redundant and become more e-waste if this is the way everything goes.

I guess it has to start somewhere though but I wouldn't get a new TV just for it.