Froch Vs. Kessler

[vian_siu]

Just a few points:
1st, why do you think Calzaghe is a bum? Do you think Carl Froch is better, because if you do then thats just laughable. He got beat by someone who Calzaghe beat with ease.

2nd, Taylor was past it when he fought Froch and was ahead on all scorecards before being TKO'd, therefore you comment about him having the ability to beat better, younger faster guys isnt really valid.

3rd, why would Froch hold onto his title but not fight in the Super Six's, it would make no sense.

4th, He beat Pascal by a split, so it wasnt exactly a great victory.

5th, I do respect him, I never said I didnt, but I dont believe he is a boxer to be hyped up, and he is way too arrogant, particularly how he treated Khan when he lost, one of the main reasons why I dont like him, aside from not impressing me with his boxing.

I know my boxing and I know Carl Froch, and Im also entitled to my opinion.

1st i never said calzaghe is a bum, i said he spent most of his career beating bums. i also never said froch is better than calzaghe. it is obvious that calzaghe is the more talented out of the two, but i respect froch more for taking on a challenge, instead of defending his title against bums in his own backyard. plus calzaghe never beat kessler with ease, that was jeff lacey who got beat with ease.

2nd taylor at that point was still favourites against froch, and its pretty clear taylor is the younger, faster and more skilful guy. and he is in his own backyard so froch would probably never win a decision anyway. but being ahead on points means nothing if you got koed and thats what happened. direll (who clearly beaten abraham) was also younger and faster than froch, but he got beat as well. kessler is also younger and faster than froch, but if you seen the state of his face after the fight, you wouldnt think he won. froch was in control most of the fight, he only lost some rounds because of inactivity, not because of kessler doing something different. when he landed he stunned kessler most of the time. it was like froch lost it at the end rather than kessler winning it. and it doesnt matter how you beat them, its all about putting names in the cv.

3rd froch could still easily made a lot of money by not entering super 6 and defend his title against bums, making money is what price fighting is all about. so from a money point of view it made prefect sense. but he took on a challenge

4th he beat pascal by a wide ud in a entertaining fight. by your standards, it means froch beat him with ease, if thats what you think about the calzaghe v kessler fight. http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=97570&cat=boxer

5th all top boxers are arrogant in a certain level. froch is just about as arrogant as amir khan and joe calzaghe, yet you like the cherry picking khan?

of course you are entitled to your opinion. i just want people to acknowledge that froch is the real deal, and has a realistic chance of winning the super 6

 

[Smit]

3rd froch could still easily made a lot of money by not entering super 6 and defend his title against bums, making money is what price fighting is all about. so from a money point of view it made prefect sense. but he took on a challenge

Against whom? He would have zero TV money if he didn't enter the tournament.

The big money is generated by the TV networks none of which would touch Froch (especially in the UK and Showtime wouldn't since they are doing the Super Six tournament). HBO already have their cash cow Super Middleweight in Bute.

 

[vian_siu]

Against whom? He would have zero TV money if he didn't enter the tournament.

The big money is generated by the TV networks none of which would touch Froch (especially in the UK and Showtime wouldn't since they are doing the Super Six tournament). HBO already have their cash cow Super Middleweight in Bute.

well he will never headline a ppv, but his promoter will find a way to get him on tv and he will still make more than enough money compared to a normal person

 

[Smit]

well he will never headline a ppv, but his promoter will find a way to get him on tv and he will still make more than enough money compared to a normal person

I think you are placing too much faith in Hennessy to be honest. His fighters rarely had decent TV in years (they occasionally got shown on ITV and were on sky occasionally before that).

Sky don't want any part of him so that takes out the single biggest (boxing) TV network in the UK right out. ITV aren't interested, BBC don't show any interest in boxing.
Primetime (a channel very few have ever heard of) is the only channel he can get on and they don't pay big money.

Showtime as I already said wouldn't touch him if he refused the Super Six and HBO have shown no interest neither for 2 reasons (he's not American or even massively popular in his own country and because they are backing Bute in that division)

More than enough compared to the average person is possible but why would he settle for that? Quite simply he needed to be in the tournament of he would have been left behind and it would have been career suicide.

 

[vian_siu]

I think you are placing too much faith in Hennessy to be honest. His fighters rarely had decent TV in years (they occasionally got shown on ITV and were on sky occasionally before that).

Sky don't want any part of him so that takes out the single biggest (boxing) TV network in the UK right out. ITV aren't interested, BBC don't show any interest in boxing.
Primetime (a channel very few have ever heard of) is the only channel he can get on and they don't pay big money.

Showtime as I already said wouldn't touch him if he refused the Super Six and HBO have shown no interest neither for 2 reasons (he's not American or even massively popular in his own country and because they are backing Bute in that division)

More than enough compared to the average person is possible but why would he settle for that? Quite simply he needed to be in the tournament of he would have been left behind and it would have been career suicide.

maybe i do have too much faith in hennessy. but i think its awfully sad that a honest and good world champ (or former world champ now) couldnt get on tv, whereas lesser fighters like harrison, gavin rees or even amir khan can because they got frank warren or barry hearn promoting them.

 

[RockLobster]

maybe i do have too much faith in hennessy. but i think its awfully sad that a honest and good world champ (or former world champ now) couldnt get on tv, whereas lesser fighters like harrison, gavin rees or even amir khan can because they got frank warren or barry hearn promoting them.

The main reason is because his attitude stinks. His endless tirade against Calzaghe was really getting tiresome. At every opportunity he had a pop against him, instead of doing that he should have concentrated on his own career. In a way I kinda agree with Khan even though he is a tit. He should been supporting other British fighters just like Hatton did.

 

[panthro]

of course you are entitled to your opinion. i just want people to acknowledge that froch is the real deal, and has a realistic chance of winning the super 6

I cant really be bothered to argue now because its obviously you are a massive Froch fanboy that thinks hes been done some kind of massive injustice by being beaten.
Froch isnt the real deal, if he was then he would have beat Kessler. Simple.

 

[thedoc46]

Panthro & Vian, you both have valid points. On one hand he's a sloppy, slow, almost amatuer looking fighter, yet on the other, he's managed to become a world champ.. Which 99.9999% of boxers never ever get too. So lets not take that away from him.

One thing is for sure though, he's not very popular, so he needs to do a better job at that and win some fans. Another point is that boxers are prizefighters, so cherry picking opponents to make you more famous and get you to the top is also part of the game. Do you think Floyd Mayweather's 40 wins were all against top rated pound for pounds? You can count on your hand the 'really' good fighters he's beat. What about Roy Jones in his prime.. Some could argue he fought bums in his back yard his entire career.. That's boxing. The really good just stand out and make the rest look like bums.

 

[vian_siu]

I cant really be bothered to argue now because its obviously you are a massive Froch fanboy that thinks hes been done some kind of massive injustice by being beaten.
Froch isnt the real deal, if he was then he would have beat Kessler. Simple.

i will quote this back to you, after froch beats abraham

 

[drunkenmaster]

What makes you a world class expert then? Or are you just in love with the guy, having to defend him in every single way?
He got beat, get over it. He lost his title and his record which doesnt make him the real deal, so you can take your posters down in your room now.
He looks slow and sloppy on TV because he is slow and sloppy (IMO). Obviously thats relatively because he is clearly a tough guy that throws hard punches by anyones standards, but obviously not tough enough.

Pacman has lost several times before, does that make him crap in any way? Of course not stop being ridiculous.

That clearly wasn't Froch's best, and he clearly had the absolute beating of Kessler, just the wrong tactics, he was simply not getting hurt and clearly looking for the KO punch and underestimated Kessler, I assume he thought Kessler would punch himself out if he left himself completely open, hence the way he went through the fight, for not a single second did Froch look in trouble in the fight and multiple times Kessler looked to be rocked and not far from going down. But he's a good fighter, with a decent defence and he certainly dodged 3 or 4 fantastic punches that would have ended the fight, which would have apparently completely changed your tune because its only about his record and lack of losses, and nothing to do with the actual fight.

Lennox lost to a lucky punch to essentially, a completely crap fighter, it happens, so do fights where you aren't tested in the slightest but you're outpunched.

Infact judging by the descriptions of the Kessler/Calzaghe fight, Calzaghe was rocked, but won through sheer numbers of punches thrown which is the usual for him, here Kessler won the same way.

 

[vian_siu]

Panthro & Vian, you both have valid points. On one hand he's a sloppy, slow, almost amatuer looking fighter, yet on the other, he's managed to become a world champ.. Which 99.9999% of boxers never ever get too. So lets not take that away from him.

One thing is for sure though, he's not very popular, so he needs to do a better job at that and win some fans. Another point is that boxers are prizefighters, so cherry picking opponents to make you more famous and get you to the top is also part of the game. Do you think Floyd Mayweather's 40 wins were all against top rated pound for pounds? You can count on your hand the 'really' good fighters he's beat. What about Roy Jones in his prime.. Some could argue he fought bums in his back yard his entire career.. That's boxing. The really good just stand out and make the rest look like bums.

i accept there is too many politics and cherry picking in the sport of boxing. thats why i feel achievement earned by fighters without big promoters (so he only get one or two chances, if he performs badly he likely to be off tv forever) and fights the best should be more respected.

to be honest mayweather and jones jr. only started cherry picking after they achieved something in their career, so they are in position to cherry pick. mayweather started cherry picking after the jose luis castillo fight (which he should have lost the first one), when he realized he could be beat after all, but he was already a 2 time world champ in two weightclass and undisputed champ in one.

as for jones jr, he started doing that after he saw his mate gerald McClellan got destoryed by nigel benn, so he afraid the same might happen to him. so he ducked benn and eubank and went for the "safe" option ever since. but even so he was also a 2 time world champ in two weightclass already, and has beaten a pound for pounder james toney.

so in a way, these two only made half of their career beating bums. but people like khan and to a extent ricky hatton (until he left frank warren after the kostya tszyu fight), had their careers (so far for khan) manufactured. i know he is young and all that, but he really has been over protected in his whole career so far. but the only time he took on a risk, he got ktfo in 56 seconds...

 

[thedoc46]

i accept there is too many politics and cherry picking in the sport of boxing. thats why i feel achievement earned by fighters without big promoters (so he only get one or two chances, if he performs badly he likely to be off tv forever) and fights the best should be more respected.

to be honest mayweather and jones jr. only started cherry picking after they achieved something in their career, so they are in position to cherry pick. mayweather started cherry picking after the jose luis castillo fight (which he should have lost the first one), when he realized he could be beat after all, but he was already a 2 time world champ in two weightclass and undisputed champ in one.

as for jones jr, he started doing that after he saw his mate gerald McClellan got destoryed by nigel benn, so he afraid the same might happen to him. so he ducked benn and eubank and went for the "safe" option ever since. but even so he was also a 2 time world champ in two weightclass already, and has beaten a pound for pounder james toney.

so in a way, these two only made half of their career beating bums. but people like khan and to a extent ricky hatton (until he left frank warren after the kostya tszyu fight), had their careers (so far for khan) manufactured. i know he is young and all that, but he really has been over protected in his whole career so far. but the only time he took on a risk, he got ktfo in 56 seconds...

Kotelnik was decent enough given he was a World Champ. Let's not forget Barrera. OK so he was an old Barrera, but still a crafty skilled top quality fighter, and Malinaggi has some quality skills. I think that's plenty of decent opposition as a stepping stone. The other up & comming people he needs to fight are Maidana, Bradley & Ortiz. Which I'm guessing he will do over the next yr or so.. Then onto the big guns.

I've gotta go with Freddie Roach on this one.. He can become something special. Golden Boy Promotions seems to think so also. Yes he has that glass jaw everyone keeps going on about, but he's gone through leaps and bounds to fix his defence and he is alltoghether a new and improved fighter.

My only hope is he doesn't start harping on about Islam and end his career in America even before it's started.

 

[panthro]

Pacman has lost several times before, does that make him crap in any way? Of course not stop being ridiculous.

That clearly wasn't Froch's best, and he clearly had the absolute beating of Kessler, just the wrong tactics, he was simply not getting hurt and clearly looking for the KO punch and underestimated Kessler, I assume he thought Kessler would punch himself out if he left himself completely open, hence the way he went through the fight, for not a single second did Froch look in trouble in the fight and multiple times Kessler looked to be rocked and not far from going down. But he's a good fighter, with a decent defence and he certainly dodged 3 or 4 fantastic punches that would have ended the fight, which would have apparently completely changed your tune because its only about his record and lack of losses, and nothing to do with the actual fight.

Lennox lost to a lucky punch to essentially, a completely crap fighter, it happens, so do fights where you aren't tested in the slightest but you're outpunched.

You dont have to bring other fighters into this. All Im saying is that Froch isnt the golden boy people make him out to be. Hes had a few big fights and wins but has never done enough to impress me and make me want to sing his praises. His attitude and berrating of other UK fighters puts me off him even more. He hasnt made a mark in the world of boxing unlike others mentioned in this thread, therefore in my eyes, hes not "the real deal".

Infact judging by the descriptions of the Kessler/Calzaghe fight, Calzaghe was rocked, but won through sheer numbers of punches thrown which is the usual for him, here Kessler won the same way.

You should watch the fight for yourself instead of judging by other peoples descriptions. Its a great fight to watch.

 

[Smit]

The other up & comming people he needs to fight are Maidana, Bradley & Ortiz. Which I'm guessing he will do over the next yr or so.. Then onto the big guns.

I've gotta go with Freddie Roach on this one.. He can become something special. Golden Boy Promotions seems to think so also. Yes he has that glass jaw everyone keeps going on about, but he's gone through leaps and bounds to fix his defence and he is alltoghether a new and improved fighter.

He won't fight both Maidana and Bradley, those two are going to fight later this year

Not sure why you think Golden Boy think he's special, they have loads of fighters in and around that division including being the Co-Promoter of Maidana.

 

[thedoc46]

He won't fight both Maidana and Bradley, those two are going to fight later this year

Not sure why you think Golden Boy think he's special, they have loads of fighters in and around that division including being the Co-Promoter of Maidana.

Cos he's often sparring with the pac-man and Roach has picked up that he's good. Actually Roach said, not only is he good, but he has the potential to becoming the next big superstar. Golden Boy listens to Roach's expert opinion and if they can have the next pac-man under their wings they'll be set to make millions upon millions. So yes they are carefully guiding his career until he's experienced enough to take them all on! They know they are onto something.

As a boxing fan, I've seen a few of his fights and he's been very impressed with each of his performances.. (Well apart from the Prescott KO ) Same can't be said about Froch.. Was not impressed with his boxing skills against Taylor, definately not impressed against Dirrell. WAS however impressed against Kessler, however i feel he was at his best, despite his career saving speech at the end when he said he wasn't 100% ready.. Everything i read up until the bout (straight from Froch's own mouth) showed otherwise.

 

[vian_siu]

Cos he's often sparring with the pac-man and Roach has picked up that he's good. Actually Roach said, not only is he good, but he has the potential to becoming the next big superstar. Golden Boy listens to Roach's expert opinion and if they can have the next pac-man under their wings they'll be set to make millions upon millions. So yes they are carefully guiding his career until he's experienced enough to take them all on! They know they are onto something.

As a boxing fan, I've seen a few of his fights and he's been very impressed with each of his performances.. (Well apart from the Prescott KO ) Same can't be said about Froch.. Was not impressed with his boxing skills against Taylor, definately not impressed against Dirrell. WAS however impressed against Kessler, however i feel he was at his best, despite his career saving speech at the end when he said he wasn't 100% ready.. Everything i read up until the bout (straight from Froch's own mouth) showed otherwise.

khan wins more impressively because his level of opponents are lower (when he was a lightweight, he frequently fights super-featherweights and light punching super-featherweights that is), plus he is naturally way more gifted (speed and athleticism) than froch anyway.

Kotelnik was decent win, considering even khan said he is the weakest world champ near his division, but a world champ nevertheless.

Barrera was old and retired for some time when he fought khan. and he is fighting above his best weight (126lbs). the fight was ended in the 1st round anyway with the butt and the cut. so that wasnt such a good win.

i can see why people not impressed with froch's skills against taylor. but what i saw was a guy being floored for the first time in his career, comeback with his gut and determination and knock out the other guy in the final round. i think it shows his incredible heart, and his rather crap boxing skill

i think people needs to understand he fights with more heart and skill, he is a warrior not a technician. if khan had half the heart and chin froch has, he would be as good as pacman in the future.

 

[Smit]

Cos he's often sparring with the pac-man and Roach has picked up that he's good. Actually Roach said, not only is he good, but he has the potential to becoming the next big superstar. Golden Boy listens to Roach's expert opinion and if they can have the next pac-man under their wings they'll be set to make millions upon millions. So yes they are carefully guiding his career until he's experienced enough to take them all on! They know they are onto something.

- He spars with Pac-Man because they are in the same camp.
- Golden Boy listen to money, not to Roach.
- Yes they know they are on to someone with a very weak chin and keeping him away from anyone with a decent punch. That's the only reason they kept him away from Maidana even though he could outbox him fairly simply.

 

[vian_siu]

- He spars with Pac-Man because they are in the same camp.
- Golden Boy listen to money, not to Roach.
- Yes they know they are on to someone with a very weak chin and keeping him away from anyone with a decent punch. That's the only reason they kept him away from Maidana even though he could outbox him fairly simply.

i do agree with this. but i think khan is a talented boxer, thats very carefully managed

 

[Smit]

i do agree with this. but i think khan is a talented boxer, thats very carefully managed

He's very talented, I don't think anyone can disagree with that but he is fundamentally flawed in the worst possible sense with having an extremely poor chin. Sooner or later someone else will get through and there are some huge punchers in or around the light-welters.

 

[vian_siu]

He's very talented, I don't think anyone can disagree with that but he is fundamentally flawed in the worst possible sense with having an extremely poor chin. Sooner or later someone else will get through and there are some huge punchers in or around the light-welters.

i guess he can do a roy jones if he is lucky, before someone kos him again.