Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

[Fourstar]

If people have been panic buying fuel since Thursday / Friday , Why do we still have enormous queues, are people just continuously "topping up" ? I'd have thought anyone panic buying would have filled up by now... Getting frustrated with the knock on effect of traffic anywhere near a petrol station

In normal times the available capacity to move fuel between depot and forecourt is not massively higher than average demand. Holding significant spare tanker+driver capacity in reserve is a waste of money. The current shortage of tanker drivers is cutting that spare capacity buffer even further.

Towards the end of last week panic buyers depleted virtually all forecourts of stock and deprived normal drivers who actually need fuel.

Now we have the situation that normal demand is near capacity and the small spare capacity has to be used to satisfy remaining panic buyers, rebuild fuel levels in tanks of normal drivers who ran out/ran extra low and rebuild forecourt stocks. It will take a while.

 

[lordrobs]

The sooner we can summon electric cars to drive to our houses, the better.

If we haven't moved away from a 9 to 5 culture by then it would only partially resolve the issue. Same with the obsession with having people 'in the office'.

Today I won't do a single thing other than talk on the phone and sit at a computer, why did I have to drive 12 miles to do that when I could be doing the same thing at home?!

 

[Maccapacca]

If we haven't moved away from a 9 to 5 culture by then it would only partially resolve the issue. Same with the obsession with having people 'in the office'.

Today I won't do a single thing other than talk on the phone and sit at a computer, why did I have to drive 12 miles to do that when I could be doing the same thing at home?!

Because you can't be trusted to be a good worker and need supervision

 

[dlockers]

If we haven't moved away from a 9 to 5 culture by then it would only partially resolve the issue. Same with the obsession with having people 'in the office'.

Today I won't do a single thing other than talk on the phone and sit at a computer, why did I have to drive 12 miles to do that when I could be doing the same thing at home?!

I totally agree - they are related things though.

Your car is likely used for what - 1/2% utilisation? The 30/45 mins commute each way per day? It sits for the vast majority of the time totally unused. The sooner we all commit to WFH/flexi schedules, the sooner even less capacity will be utilised.

The model of car ownership for these kinds of journeys is utterly stupid. Owning a car that depreciates, goes wrong, and sits unused for 99% of the time is bonkers.

The thing that puts people off is that renting is too complex/"risky"/expensive/inconveient and public transport doesn't solve for every use case.

The idea that folk who own Teslas can rent them out when not used to ferry folk around - turning the asset into a business - is appealing, and mass rental schemes where the cars park underground but get summoned so our streets aren't littered with crappy hatchbacks rotting away with <10k miles on is much more appealing.

 

[MissChief]

Because you can't be trusted to be a good worker and need supervision

And yet in many work environments productivity actually rose when working from home compared to being in the office. Yet managers still wanted a return to the office to justify their own existence or because they still don’t trust their staff despite near 18 months of having to do so anyway and for many showing no reason at all why they shouldn’t and couldn’t be trusted to continue working from home.

 

[adam cool dude]

I totally agree - they are related things though.

Your car is likely used for what - 1/2% utilisation? The 30/45 mins commute each way per day? It sits for the vast majority of the time totally unused. The sooner we all commit to WFH/flexi schedules, the sooner even less capacity will be utilised.

The model of car ownership for these kinds of journeys is utterly stupid. Owning a car that depreciates, goes wrong, and sits unused for 99% of the time is bonkers.

The thing that puts people off is that renting is too complex/"risky"/expensive/inconveient and public transport doesn't solve for every use case.

The idea that folk who own Teslas can rent them out when not used to ferry folk around - turning the asset into a business - is appealing, and mass rental schemes where the cars park underground but get summoned so our streets aren't littered with crappy hatchbacks rotting away with <10k miles on is much more appealing.

I would hate to have to order a car as I can be very spontaneous with my journeys and love the fact I can literally step out onto my drive and go. Plus seeing how people can treat the interiors of their cars I much rather have my own. Steering wheels can hide so much filth.

 

[dlockers]

I would hate to have to order a car as I can be very spontaneous with my journeys and love the fact I can literally step out onto my drive and go. Plus seeing how people can treat the interiors of their cars I much rather have my own. Steering wheels can hide so much filth.

I hope the future car rental market will fully cater to the spontaneous usage - I mean that's the use case 99% of people have and keeps them away from public transport. The idea being you just summon the car you want from the app and pulls up outside... dreamy.

Agreed on cleanliness though. Rental cars at best are at best grim and at worse total cess pits.

Hopefully the cost model makes it much more of a decision for you though. I know I pay £x/k a month for my E43 to sit outside doing absolutely nothing so it wouldn't take much for the benefit case to swing my favour - but I imagine it would have be 10x more convenient that owning your own car and 10x less expensive for people to buy into it.

 

[MatsyLR]

And yet in many work environments productivity actually rose when working from home compared to being in the office. Yet managers still wanted a return to the office to justify their own existence or because they still don’t trust their staff despite near 18 months of having to do so anyway and for many showing no reason at all why they shouldn’t and couldn’t be trusted to continue working from home.

Then you also need to factor in the threat of having your job done by someone abroad for a much cheaper price. Of course that only applies to certain areas of unskilled office work but its a threat many companies are making.

 

[dlockers]

Then you also need to factor in the threat of having your job done by someone abroad for a much cheaper price. Of course that only applies to certain areas of unskilled office work but its a threat many companies are making.

This argument is so dumb. If roles could be offshored they would. What difference does it make having folk in an office?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

USP for your CV.
I foster growth like a hen…

i can keep a seat warm in an office

 

[MatsyLR]

This argument is so dumb. If roles could be offshored they would. What difference does it make having folk in an office?

I don't disagree but its something companies are trying to pull saying why should they pay people in the UK if they are going to stay at home when they can pay a fraction of the price to abroad for the same work.
Its all micro-manging middle management nonsense.

Many people would then also need to factor in if having a car is worth it financially as its just sitting there most the time doing nothing. I only bought a car recently last month, if I didn't have a job that required me to go to an office about 15mile away, I wouldn't of bought a car in first place.

 

[Tefal]

This argument is so dumb. If roles could be offshored they would. What difference does it make having folk in an office?

Bit if a role can be done from home why can't it be off shored?

Doesn't matter where the home is outside of some security stuff?

The main reason I'm guessing is no one has bothered yet/they don't want collective action taken. But it's a lot harder to organise union action when no-one sees each other

 

[adam cool dude]

WFH is realistically a new thing due to covid. It will not take long for companies to offload to other countries where they can pay cheaper wages.

If anything WFH and things like Teams have given the big companies big ideas to save even more money.

 

[Basher]

Because you can't be trusted to be a good worker and need supervision

Or because human relationships with the people we work with are vital.

You can't have proper human relationships remotely.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Hybrid working is coming - 2 or 3 days in an office for collaboration and WFH to get stuff done / effective TEAMS sessions.

Ive been doing similar since Xmas.

 

[MatsyLR]

You can't have proper human relationships remotely.

Sounds like heaven to me

 

[DXP55]

Tuesday is shopping day so got to Morrisons at usual time of 8.00 dropped wife off and out to Aldi -Morrisons pumps were all in use but that was it -left Aldi and went to Lidl- went back to Morrisons and no change -Came out with wife and shopping and there was a queue from entrance to mini island then to next mini island - then over the bridge and half way to bypass -Where did all these cars come from in the 20-25 min I was in Morrisons.
If they wanted to fill up why not get up earlier.

I still get WFH confused with WTF.

 

[Conscript]

Or because human relationships with the people we work with are vital.

You can't have proper human relationships remotely.

It's a balance. Is it a bit easier to communicate face to face? Yes.

But if, in order to to do, I have to add 2-3 hours to my work day for commuting and spend hundreds of pounds a month on train travel - well, to be honest, I'm fine with daily teams calls rather than direct interaction. I've been working remotely fully since March 2020, I'm in constant contact with my colleagues with Teams, and I don't feel that our relationships have degraded in any way at all. And we're all happier as a result. Even now, we are going to be returning to the office only 2 Fridays per month, for collaborative meetings, and will plan any social events around that. That seems an ideal compromise to me. The idea that to do my job, I need to pay through the nose every single day to spend over an hour lugging my laptop up to London on a packed train, just so I can use said laptop sitting somewhere else rather than my own house, boggles my mind.

 

[lordrobs]

Or because human relationships with the people we work with are vital.

You can't have proper human relationships remotely.

I agree in principal, in practice... lets just say I'm not really gaining much by being in my particular office.

 

[MikeTimbers]

WFH is not equal to an offshore possibility unless the role requires zero knowledge of the UK's culture/practice. A robotic repetitive role can be offshored but a role that requires decision-making also requires knowledge not just a manual.

Back to the topic, I just went to buy bread and it's around a 3-mile round trip with only half an hour to do it so into the car it is. End of my road there is a Shell with gridlock around it, do a U and take a big loop to get where I want to go, shoot!, a BP has giant queues so can't come back this way, get bread, head in giant loop on the other side. ended up doing more like six miles because the stations that do have fuel are no-go zones.

This is in SE9, London.