Furlough to Voluntary Redundancy

[Bloodrayne]

Hi all,

I have been furloughed since the end of March which has been a blessing as it has allowed for me to take a lead on childcare whilst the school is out.

However, I have been asked to keep a bi-weekly check on my work email for updates, and among the more recent ones has been a call for expressing an interest in voluntary redundancy. There has been no revised structure shared, nor indication on those at risk - just that there will be some voluntary redundancies, and probably some additional to this (as they consolidate roles).

I have worked very hard for the Company over the past 10 years, putting them and deadlines above any CPD that I may have wanted to do, but now feel like I find myself very much in the position that my role will be one of those that has been identified as one that could be lost (very niche role, but a busy one).

I don't expect specific advice with regards to my current situation, but just feedback from anyone that may have been through a similar process - we have been asked to express interest, with no firm commitment and no impact should we decline what's on offer at this stage - but is this likely to actually be the case? Or if I express an interest am I likely to be top of any list when it comes to the next cull?

 

[blairw]

Voluntary Redundancy - I'd be starting at 10 months money minimum as an ask

 

[Quartz]

Does your contract say anything about voluntary redundancy? What is your notice period?

 

[Bloodrayne]

Notice period is a week per year of service - so 10 weeks, nothing in contract about voluntary redundancy (will have to look up if there’s any online annexes, but certainly nothing in the paperwork I signed).

 

[fez]

The question is why they would offer good voluntary redundancy if they can pay you far less for involuntary. Most companies won't pay a penny more than they have to.

I'm about to be laid off by the looks of it and I would be stunned if I get anything but statutory.

 

[Surveyor]

The question is why they would offer good voluntary redundancy if they can pay you far less for involuntary. Most companies won't pay a penny more than they have to.

I'm about to be laid off by the looks of it and I would be stunned if I get anything but statutory.

Voluntary redundancy doesn't have to be offered on any more favourable terms than compulsory redundancy but it's viewed as a more positive move from an employer than simply enforcing redundancy onto staff.

 

[BongoHunter]

What kind of size firm are we talking about?

 

[fez]

Voluntary redundancy doesn't have to be offered on any more favourable terms than compulsory redundancy but it's viewed as a more positive move from an employer than simply enforcing redundancy onto staff.

Oh I know. Each way has its potential positives and negatives.

 

[Bloodrayne]

It's a large firm (multiple offices); there's been no feedback on the process yet - and there's been something of a change of tone in the past week with regards to performance (as long as they are factoring in that they furloughed a chunk of the workforce in this calculation it's better news).

They did not detail what voluntary redundancy packages would look like (changes from person to person), but they did use the term 'enhanced' when it came to terms on offer.

I would not put it past them to withdraw the redundancy talk at this stage, and for it to re-appear again a few months down the line but with added urgency.

 

[Energize]

I don't expect specific advice with regards to my current situation, but just feedback from anyone that may have been through a similar process - we have been asked to express interest, with no firm commitment and no impact should we decline what's on offer at this stage - but is this likely to actually be the case? Or if I express an interest am I likely to be top of any list when it comes to the next cull?

Well that is highly dependent on your current situation. Depends on what the company is like and how disposable you are.

 

[BongoHunter]

In some companies I've worked at - expressing an interest can give you an advantage in that it's offerred on decent terms to make it attractive, I have found that voluntary often has a bit of room for negotiation (assuming they don't have legions of people going for it) so there could be scope for sweetening the deal. I got 9 months pay and 3 months gardening leave the first time it happened to me - I'd only been at the company 3 years and had another job lined up immediately with better pay anyway, not sure those opportunities will be so common with what's going on in the world right now though.

Bad side - if it doesn't work out and you stay for whatever reason, you might have been labeled in some way by people in know or management, which in some organisations and cultures can be a pain in the ass long term if you want to progress etc. How it get handled is really dependent on your company in this case.

Every company where voluntary has been offered due to the company being in distress or major reorg that looks nuts to those on the ground I've left immediately - only using voluntary where the deal is much better than enforced redundancy to the point its a decent gain as you know you won't be unemployed for long.

In normal times id say be super warey if the company gets a large number of people out the door quickly through a voluntary scheme - it's normally the talent that will jump first, which can often put a company in further distress if enough of the right people disappear simultaneously - but these are not normal times and only people with select skills will be in that position in 2020 due to the mess of Covid-19, so I would expect uptake on these types of schemes to be lower than normal for the time being

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I got waaaaay better terms (3x) when I took VR when I worked for HP. The trouble is with CR is that it stirs up trouble with the unions and leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of those who avoided CR but still felt nervous of the process, so they always tried to avoid it by offering good VR terms.

Expressing an interest in VR is always just that - you get a quote to leave and if you don't like the terms offered, then you don't go, as simple as that. It should not have any impact on your candidacy for any future CR rounds.

 

[Maundie]

Also check loan and mortgage insurances (if you have any) as they don't often pay on VR, that's why when I went a lot of people stayed for CR but as I didn't have un-employment cover I just took VR which meant I could leave 3 months earlier for the same money the CR people got.

 

[HangTime]

^Good point. I don't take out such insurance but I know some do. I think there's no harm in exploring it without any commitment though (there might be a scenario where VR is still preferable).

 

[fez]

Bit of a niche question but if I find another job after being made redundant and then my old job offers me my job back, will I still receive redundancy pay? I assume not.

The whole system seems a bit stupid. I am essentially on notice and back on furlough until the end of my notice period but I could be in a position to lose my redundancy if they decide to offer me my job back a day before I would be about to start a new job.

 

[Mr Badger]

Bit of a niche question but if I find another job after being made redundant and then my old job offers me my job back, will I still receive redundancy pay? I assume not.

The whole system seems a bit stupid. I am essentially on notice and back on furlough until the end of my notice period but I could be in a position to lose my redundancy if they decide to offer me my job back a day before I would be about to start a new job.

If you don't actually leave then you won't receive a redundancy payment. If you are made redundant but then immediately restart your old job then you can expect to pay the money back. Companies often have rules about not rehiring people that they have made redundant for a set period and there are tax implications if they do so. It might be possible to dodge this by taking someone on as a contractor rather than an employee.

 

[fez]

If you don't actually leave then you won't receive a redundancy payment. If you are made redundant but then immediately restart your old job then you can expect to pay the money back. Companies often have rules about not rehiring people that they have made redundant for a set period and there are tax implications if they do so. It might be possible to dodge this by taking someone on as a contractor rather than an employee.

I understand that but a company shouldn't have the power to get out of paying you redundancy by offering you your old job back. Most people made redundant will be trying to find a new job and having the possibility that you will be messed around by your old job isn't right.

They should be able to offer to revoke your redundancy but if you choose to keep it they should have to pay out.

Lets say I earn £40k a year and get made redundant with a months notice. I find a new job for £35k and I'm starting as soon as my last job finishes. My previous company could offer me my old job back a few days before the end of my notice period and I would have to choose between taking my old job back at a company that will probably let me go again soon anyway or take a pay cut and lose any redundancy package I had.

 

[cheesyboy]

@fez

If you've been made redundant, it will be official in the form of a letter giving you notice and laying out any other conditions. They can't change their mind once redundancy is agreed, without your agreement.

 

[Mr Badger]

@fez

If you've been made redundant, it will be official in the form of a letter giving you notice and laying out any other conditions. They can't change their mind once redundancy is agreed, without your agreement.

That's not correct if notice is withdrawn before the exit date.

 

[cheesyboy]

That's not correct if notice is withdrawn before the exit date.

Incorrect. Once termination notice has been issued, it's binding