G.skill Trident Neo 3800 CL14 issues

[OC2000]

I have the 4 stick 3800 CL14 kit, but really struggling with it.

I have the 5950X and Crosshair Dark Hero

Setting XMP is hit and miss. Sometimes it will boot and other times it won’t. It will post an F9 the OD or 07. Resetting works sometimes.

I’ve inputted the safe 3800 CL14 with the DRAM calc and tried different alternatives, and when it does boot it gets mem errors on mem test. This is at 1.5V too.

trying 2133 with a 2000 FLK outright won’t post too.

Any suggestions on what I can do on this motherboard to add more stability?

 

[OC2000]

Nope getting constant F9 issues with 4 sticks or 2 and just tested leaving everything in the bios to auto and setting the ram to 3200 which also causes an F9. So far the only thing that works out the box is 2133.

I can boot into windows using XMP, but it takes a few tries for the bios to post. Mem test passes with XMP too. Using the Ryzen calculator fails mem test even with safe settings and down clocked to 3733.

I may try a different motherboard and see if the same is happening.

 

[OC2000]

If it is still happening with 2 sticks then it's most likely fclk related but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad chip though, it's more likely that due to the bios being new that things aren't optimised properly yet.

Have a look at some of the weird voltages used to get FCLK running high on this board.

Were those voltages set to automatic to get that, or did you have to set them manually? Im going to try XMP with lower speeds shortly to see if I still get F9 as MaXx suggests. If it does happen, Im going to switch to my Aorus extreme X570 to see if the same occurs. If it continues to do this, I will RMA the CPU. I have had issues with this CPU since getting it, but it could be because the Dark Hero is a new motherboard and the BIOS is not properly sorted yet.

I've already ordered the 16GB x 2 3800 CL14 version of this RAM and will return the 4x8GB 3800 CL14 which cost £200 more!

 

[OC2000]

FCLK amd MCLK need to be at a 1:1 ration. load ram at XMP but back the speed down to 2400Mhz and work your way up until you get problems.

4sticks @ 3800 CL14 no ryzern is tough

I took 2 sticks out, set XMP and reduced speed to 2400. It F9ed when I reached 3200. Would would you think this. I had no issues running 3600 CL14 on my 3950X on this motherboard with this ram.

I've submitted an RMA with the competitor

 

[OC2000]

I just tried changing the 2 stick which were failing 3200 from A1 / B1 to A2/B2 and got this running stable. Would this be a cpu or motherboard issue if A1 B1 can't do 3200 mhz stable?

 

[OC2000]

To quote AMD..
"The 5950X supports up to 128 GiB of dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory."

4 sticks will likely reduces the 3200mhz rated speed. You will got some good and some back chips but if you can run 3200mhz with 2 sticks your cpu is probably fine.

You can't compare your 5950x to your old 3950x

This issue was 3200 was causing F9 error too in the A1 / B1 config. In fact I was getting the F9 at 2400 too. Its random. A2/B2 seems solid as a rock in the pic above

 

[OC2000]

For AMD when using 2 sticks you always use A2 and B2. RTFM issue there I'm afraid, but its a common gotcha when moving from Intel to AMD

It still doesn't explain why your 4 stick config wasn't working though - were you trying to run 4 sticks with gear down mode disabled? You'll need to enable that and drop down to TRCDRD 15 most likely to get all 4 sticks working unless you're happy to run above 1.5v. There's a few more pointers for you below based off your zentimings screenshot above.

tFAW 12 does not work on AMD, minimum for tRRDS is 4 so minimum tFAW is 16. You can set lower tFAW but it does nothing.

tRRDL you want to get down to 4, tWTRS and tWTRL aim for 4 and 8. Should make that with B-Die without issue.

tRDWR 8 and tWRRD 1 is very tight and not usually stable on AMD at 3800mhz. 10/1, 9/1 or 8/3 are where you'll most likely end up, its usually best to leave these on auto until last.

tRFC works best as a mutiple of tRC. Try 240 for stability (tRC x 6) - if it passes then test from 236 to 244 for best performance with a few memtest default passes in the ryzen dram calc. If 240 fails then try 280 (tRC x 7) and then test the same -4 to +4 range.

For what its worth Asus has bios problems at the moment. There's many stories of various memory problems going on. Personally none of my single sided B-Die works properly in my Impact on any of the new ryzen bioses though its fine on my Gigabyte board with a Ryzen 3000 cpu. Double sided B-Die though Im having no issues at all.

Thanks for that info, I'll look into those settings. I've ordered the 2x16gb 3800 CL14 of the same Ram and will return the 4 stick as I have a decent return window on it.

With 4 sticks in, It sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. If its been off overnight for example it will load up with a 07 error, or a F9 / OD error or if I change anything completely unrelated in the BIOS and resave i.e. changing the boot order. This is using the XMP profile which has loose timings and has happened when lowering it XMP to 3200.

In my experience with hardware if something that isn't solved on the first page of search google, it's most likely a hardware fault.

Here is the XMP profile when I does actually get into Windows with 4 sticks. Just noticed the FCLK / UCLK and MCLK are all different timings, Ill see if manually setting those still works.

 

[OC2000]

Yeah thats made a mess of your fabric clocks - uclk:mclk mode has gone to 1:2 and its fixed your fabric clock at 1800mhz as if you were running the ram at 3600mhz.

My single sided sticks (Patriot 4400C19 and G.Skill 4000C15) work fine at 16-16-16-1T, they get less and less reliable as the timings are improved. At the 14-14-14-1T settings they run at in my gigabyte board they frequently wont load windows on the Impact and sometimes no post (0D, 1D or F9). Once in a blue moon though they're fully stable until the next reboot.

The double sided kits I have (an old corsair 3333mhz 16-18-18 quad channel 4 x 16gb kit and my new G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GVK kit) by contrast work great as long as GDM is enabled. 14-15-12-GDM is fully stable with my G.Skill double sided sticks yet will not post with any of my single sided sticks

I loosened the water block on the CPU which seems to have made things bit more stable. It may have been over tightened, but Im going to remove 2 of the 4 sticks permanently now and wait for the order of new ram which is quoted for Jan. At least I can rule out the need to RMA the CPU now. I've lowered the tRFC to 240 which works fine, and will go through your other suggestions a bit later. Its amazing how much more stable the system feels when using 2 sticks instead of 4!

Going to try and work out how I can boot with a 2000 FCLK now too.

Thanks for your help.

 

[OC2000]

No problem.

If the dark hero has a 2402 version then try that - you'll get WHEA errors but it will go to 2133 fCLK if your cpu can get there too. The higher you run fclk the more WHEA errors youll get. They start at 3666mhz...

The only Bios available is the 2601 BIOS. I take it the rumoured BIOS to provide more stability for higher FCLK is not out yet?

 

[OC2000]

AGESA patch D is out for Asus with release 3003 that came yesterday - however its no better for fclk, it only adds the SAM slider.

Is there anything you can suggest I do to improve these timings. Its running at 1.5V (XMP Spec) but only getting a Latency of 55. I've seen low 50s with similar timings on other 5000 series. The timings in the image generate 2 errors with D Rams easy memtest, but at 14,14,14,28,40 they pass fine as well as in mem5test.

 

[OC2000]

tWTRS 3 is the minimum: possible, small benefit in latency
tWTRL 6 is the minimum: doubt you will get this to work, small benefit in latency
tRDRD/tWRWR SCL: 2 minimum but unlikely, 3 should be possible. Small benefit in latency. 2 works on B450, 3 on X570. Motherboard memory trace layout quality dependant.
tWR tCL-4 (10) minimum: possible, small benefit bandwidth and latency
tRCDWR 8 minimum: allows tCWL to go lower
tCWL minimum = tRCDWR. Hard to stabilise at high performance settings below 10. Leave tRDWR and tWRRD at auto while tuning this.
tRTP minimum = 2 x tWTRS.
tRDRDSD/tWRWRSD: only applies to dual rank sticks, set to 1 / 1 for single rank, 4 / 6 for dual rank
tRDRDDD/tWRWRDD: only applies when using 4 sticks. Set to 1 / 1 for two stick configurations.
tRP: tCL - 2 works well in most cases. Very minor effect on latency, used to adjust tRC value.
tRAS 21 minimum: will cause boot failure reading storage when set too low. Scales with voltage, 22 is possible at 1.5v with exceptional single rank sticks, 23 with similar quality dual rank. Allows reduction of tRC.
tRC = tRAS+tRP. Little effect on latency, used to adjust tRFC value.
tRFC = multiple of TRC, scales with voltage. tRFC too low can cause corrupted data to be written to storage - risk of killing an OS. Good effect on bandwidth and latency, particularly evident in memtest run times in ryzen dram calc. Motherboard/bios memory training affects tRFC minimum. Too low: no post, slightly too low: OS corruption risk. Below 230 @ 3800mhz is getting very risky.

Increasing SOC Loadline calibration will help stabilise your vSOC voltage. Ideally you dont want it to dip below its set value. As Guest2 is saying above it has an effect on your vDDG sub voltages so you want the vSOC rail to be as steady as possible and minimum 50mv above your IOD and CCD voltages at all times. You may as well manually set the switching frequency of the SOC phases to the maximum while youre making that change. There's so little power going through the SOC phases when using a CPU without an APU that heat and efficiency penalties normally associated with these changes are negligible.

If you can tune down your SOC, CCD, IOD and CLDO VDDP voltages when you have finished your memory and fabric overclock that can give your cpu some more power budget to boost with. These components form part of the overall package power used to adjust turbo behaviour. Even if you use PBO to override limits you can gain a little extra core speed by minimising these voltages. No effect if using a manual cpu multiplier or per ccx overclocking (PB2 disabled).

Thanks for that detailed guide! I will play around with this and see if I can fine tune further.

Will fine tuning this affect the IMC reliability? I've had tuned ram in the passed which degraded the IMC. Im more familiar with graphics cards. This is the first time im looking into overclocking Ryzen properly.

 

[OC2000]

I think this is about as good as I can get the ram for benchmarking stable. My new dual rank version of this is now on its way which I’ll tune for 100% stability. Thanks again MrPils for your help and knowledge

 

[OC2000]

Nice timings

Have you stability tested with the Extreme1@anta777 config in TestMem5 v0.12?
Isnt Cinebench R20 primarily for CPU benchmarking, not RAM

What do you get with AIDA64 cache & memory benchmark?
DRAM calc easy & default?

These timings are benchmark stable, but do throw a couple of errors in mem test. At 14 14 14 with the same sub timings they’re fine with no errors. I’d probably need 1.52 to get them stable for every day use which I wouldn’t be comfortable with. Maybe tRC at 39 too.
I’ll get screenshots tomorrow and will be lowering the Soc voltages a bit too.

I’m not keeping these ram sticks though as i want 32gb and 4 sticks are unstable on this system.

I think ram does have an impact on cpu intensive benchmarks especially in timespy. With XMP 3800 CL14 I was getting around 15k in the time spy cpu test. With these timings im getting over 17.5k

 

[OC2000]

The lower 50 timings are on single CCD such as 5600x or 5800x. Going to the 5900x or 5950x is 2CCD and this adds approx 5ns of latency.

Ah, learning a lot today. Thank you. Lowest I’ve seen mine so far is 52.7ns.

 

[OC2000]

Well I barely understand all of this but I think I’m glad I went for the 2 x 16 kit of this ram rather than the 4 x 8.

What’s the best ‘idiots guide’ to sort RAM timings? I’ve learning as I read but everyone has more knowledge and talking about timings with a good understanding so it’s a bit like the toddler observing the professors

I agree with Guest2 here. Ram timings has always been my weak point. But over the last few days, I've learnt a lot especially from MrPils.

Best thing to do is use the Ryzen DRAM calculator, Set the Rank to Dual, and Dims to 2. and try the safe settings first. Then Fast. Then tighten further using MrPils suggestions in this thread.

To get the exact settings of your RAM for Ryzen Calculator to give you the best timings to start with use Taiphoon to get your ram info. Theres tutorials on this. But basically you want to convert the report to nanoseconds export the complete HTML file and import it into Ryzen DRAM Calculator. Hit Safe settings and input those into BIOS.

 

[OC2000]

I have a C8H and the Asus mb runs memory just fine.
Using Samsung Bdie.


ProcODT. 34.3. or. 36.9

Im hoping to get similar timings as this for daily use once my 2x16GB kit comes. Ill set tRDRDDD/tWRWRDD to 1 though.

Does the ProcODT, Rttxxx do anything for performance or only stability?

 

[OC2000]

ProcODT and Rttxxx is more about boot or no boot.

Thanks. Ill leave those alone for now. I need to start working on PBO now for single score performance.

 

[OC2000]

My 2x16 kit has shipped - fun. So others who have pre-ordered will hopefully get theirs soon.

Not going to build until I move house though.... could be as long as late feb :/

Mine too. Hopefully here for the weekend.

 

[OC2000]

Mine arrived today!

Stamped with “2020 Dec” - hot off the press

Mine arrives on Monday. Shame you can’t give them a quick test to see if they’ll do 14 14 14 28 42

 

[OC2000]

Mine said it would arrive on Monday (DHL?) but I then got an update today at about 1pm to say it would be today!

Yeah sorry - it’ll be in it’s packaging for a while :|

I’m sort of assuming it’s exactly the same as other ram in the range that has been binned to go at the XMP speed. We’ll see how well it does. Going for the Unity-X board when that lands which will hopefully help.

Make sure you post your settings so I can steal them :]

Already on it! I’ll be going for daily timings on these, but hoping it can be similar to those I’m running now as they’re rock stable at all 14s with tight sub timings. Unity is meant to be great for Ram so you won’t have a problem.

mrpils says he has more stability with his 16x2 so maybe better results can be had!