games developer??

petemyster said:
... Also the comment about the slave labour thing is the same with any software development job, not specific to games design.
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err, having worked in and out of the games industry, it is my experience that games companies make you work many more hours than any other software dev role.
 
This is true. Companies will leverage your enthusiasm for gaming to persuade you to put the extra hours in.

At the end of the day it is just a job like any other. I know when you're getting in to it you think it's a dream job but, really, it isn't.

As for roles. Programmers are generally the most abused and put upon. Designers who have invested themselves into the project also get the shaft but they don't do whole lot of 'work'. It's more about overseeing what's going down and covering for some clueless producer. Most others on the team can do the 9 to 5 and bugger off home really.

And touching on something from earlier:

Does anyone know the kind of salary a conceptual/2D artist working in this kind of field in the UK would expect to get?
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It's very unusual for someone new to be employed just for this role in the current climate. You'd really have to just take an artists job and do any an all that is required to get your foot in the door. Don't be fooled by advertisements looking for concept artists. They do want you to do this stuff, but you will also be doing lots of other menial bull****.

As for salary it would depend on the company but it's not well paid. As someone new to the role you'd be looking well under 20k. Again depending on the project/company/howyoublaggedthejob.
 
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Just out of curiosity (not that I'm planning to go into games development - work in a completely different area of software) but who actually acts as the project lead when a game is developed?

As in I'm sure when a games engine or whatever is developed that is then used by many games it is likely to be the same deal as any other software company - you get a product manager and below him a bunch of analysts, developers (perhpas sub divided into different teams) etc..

But for the game itself - who tends to take the lead - is it some senior developer or a designer or does it vary somewhat? Would you get a project manager looking after all coding aspects and reporting to some overall manager responsible for the game as a whole - concept, level design, code, music/sound, artwork etc...
 
dowie said:
Just out of curiosity (not that I'm planning to go into games development - work in a completely different area of software) but who actually acts as the project lead when a game is developed?

As in I'm sure when a games engine or whatever is developed that is then used by many games it is likely to be the same deal as any other software company - you get a product manager and below him a bunch of analysts, developers (perhpas sub divided into different teams) etc..

But for the game itself - who tends to take the lead - is it some senior developer or a designer or does it vary somewhat? Would you get a project manager looking after all coding aspects and reporting to some overall manager responsible for the game as a whole - concept, level design, code, music/sound, artwork etc...
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Ground up game engine development tends to fall into 2 catagories you get people like Carmack who still will literally shut themselves away for days on end crunching code with maybe a little help from 2-3 other people to test stuff or build prototype assets while he concentrates on the main code and then you get people like the guys behind 4D Rulers, big world engine, etc. who will take the established concepts that come out of engines like that and then put together an engine thats more rounded/polished, more accessable/3rd party friendly toolsets, etc. these latter companies tend to be more business structured with a producer, project managers, etc.
 
First class graduate of Abertay's computer games technology course and game developer with experience on PS3, iPhone and xbox 360 here.

I can really vouch for the abertay computer games technology course. It is top notch and probably still your best bet if you want to be a programmer in the games industry. Other than that, any good computer science degree would be an excellent decision, as you could focus your final year project around computer games or create a decent game related portfolio with the programming skills you picked up. Plus, if you did finish that degree and decided you didn't want to go into games anymore, you'd had a more generic degree to launch off :). I guess the age old rule of picking a decent university is a good one here. Make sure whatever you do though, that C++ is your primary language. Even if a company is lookign for a c# programmer or an objective C programmer, if you know C++ they'll have no doubt that you could handle those high level languages too. A good, solid programming langauge and strong maths skills is what they look for.

As for games Design, well, thats an entirely different beast. I wouldn't go for a specific "games design" degree but rather a general design degree.. like interaction design or something. A portfolio for games design is the most important tool you can get for landing a design job. Things like creating kick-ass levels in 3d engines will help you no-end. Team up with a programmer friend and design an iphone game for him to code etc.. Portfolio is key.

For art, you really need to be very skilled in both traditional art and computer art. I say traditional art because a lot of people tend to come into the games industry with just 3d modelling skills but can't draw to save themselves. Concept work is still a big part of the industry so someone who can model, animate AND draw will be worth their weight in gold to any developer. To get into the games industry as an artist, I'd recommend picking a good 3d art degree and taking drawing classes/teach yourself traditional art skills on the side.

A lot of people in this thread talk about not being paid as much as a general software developer and it is true to some extent, especially when you're first breaking into the industry. The competition is fierce to say the least. But the games industry can be rewarding in other ways. You're at the cutting edge of technology, working usually in small teams in a very casual atmosphere. The days of 60 hour weeks are largely long gone too. You might be required to work a bit more during crunch time though, and usually without pay. Its a good idea not to look at the games industry as some shining example of a dream job but weigh up the pros and cons and decide if its right for you. It is for me, I'm happy to say :)
 
Amleto said:
err, having worked in and out of the games industry, it is my experience that games companies make you work many more hours than any other software dev role.
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I've never worked in the games industry, but have done my fair share of time as a developer in various other industries and for the most part 40-45 hour weeks are the norm.
Even in front office investment banking, which is known for working you hard, a usual day is something like 8am - 6pm unless there are big deadlines close by, and from everything I hear about working in gaming you'll regularly be doing more than that.
 
My ex housemate's brother is an engine programmer for, last I heard, a Sony study. By his own admission the extent of his education started and ended with rolling a joint every morning, and hacking away on code the next 12 hours for years on end. He sent his portfolio to a studio, got a call within an hour and had the job a week later. Experience > Degree.
 
dowie said:
Just out of curiosity (not that I'm planning to go into games development - work in a completely different area of software) but who actually acts as the project lead when a game is developed?

As in I'm sure when a games engine or whatever is developed that is then used by many games it is likely to be the same deal as any other software company - you get a product manager and below him a bunch of analysts, developers (perhpas sub divided into different teams) etc..

But for the game itself - who tends to take the lead - is it some senior developer or a designer or does it vary somewhat? Would you get a project manager looking after all coding aspects and reporting to some overall manager responsible for the game as a whole - concept, level design, code, music/sound, artwork etc...
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It's much the same but a tad less formal than other areas of software development. In the UK the producer is the person responsible for the project. It's either some useless office orientated douchebag or a long time developer that has moved on from their coding/design/art position.

In the U.S. the amount of douchebaggery and middle management interfering is higher.

In Japan the producer is THE man for everything about the game. If it's a good game it's all his work. If it's a failure then demotion follows swiftly; and maybe a lost finger.
 
regulus said:
My ex housemate's brother is an engine programmer for, last I heard, a Sony study. By his own admission the extent of his education started and ended with rolling a joint every morning, and hacking away on code the next 12 hours for years on end. He sent his portfolio to a studio, got a call within an hour and had the job a week later. Experience > Degree.
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Not quite true though is it. My mate applied for his job at Codemasters, got a call the next day asking if he could do a phone interview, did the phone interview couple of days later and was asked if he could go in for a proper interview the following week. Went for that, and 2 days after that was told he got the job and was starting in 3 weeks.
 
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Volcs said:
Mate of mine went into this after his design portfolio was rejected from Loughborough uni for their graphic design course.

http://www.leadinglightdesign.com/

http://skybolt.deviantart.com/

http://www.mattallsopp.blogspot.com/

Lets say hes doing pretty well for himself.;)
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Thanks for the links, man. I'm at a stage where I just don't know where to go or what to do after uni. My years in the interactive/web industry bored me to death and people keep saying I should tailor my portfolio and go for a role like this. However, there's no money in design, graphic and so forth so I figured there'd be little to average money in this sector unless you were insanely talented, like Mullins.
 
shifty_uk said:
Thanks for the links, man. I'm at a stage where I just don't know where to go or what to do after uni. My years in the interactive/web industry bored me to death and people keep saying I should tailor my portfolio and go for a role like this. However, there's no money in design, graphic and so forth so I figured there'd be little to average money in this sector unless you were insanely talented, like Mullins.
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Drop him a note via his blog if you've any questions - he's pretty much the nicest guy on the planet so sure he will be happy to help.
 
Rroff said:
While the specific example you used isn't of much practical use these days as its handled in the hardware renderer - and generally your unlikely to ever be involved in that kinda depth sorting except maybe on some mobile platforms that still use partial software rendering - if your expecting to get into the programming side having a good grounding in stuff like that is important.
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That may be, but z-buffering is not the be all and end all of optimisation, and says nothing of geometry that falls off screen after applying the projection matrix. A good engine is selective about what it sends to the renderer in the first place. I only used the example of the painters algorithm as a historical root.
 
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Got a few friends who do/have completed a Game Art Design degree at DMU. Some have landed jobs at Codemasters, Sega and Jagex, so it may be worth going down that route if you're into the art side of it.
 
Volcs said:
http://www.leadinglightdesign.com/

http://skybolt.deviantart.com/

http://www.mattallsopp.blogspot.com/

Lets say hes doing pretty well for himself.;)
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He is doing well for himself because he is damn good at what he does.

TBH, if you are good at any profession (plumbing/carpentry/programming, etc), you should be able to make a good living out of it, regardless of what your background is. Of course, you have to be able to show "something", to demonstrate that you are good; for gaming, this is where your portfolio comes in.

Here's a question: for those of you looking to work in games (coding/design) - have you not thought about working for yourself? Somebody suggested making small IPhone games/applications. To me, this seems like a no-brainer, especially if you are genuinely good.

There are obviously a lot of people who are craving to a get a games-related "job", when they may in fact find better success/money, if they try going it alone.

I can understand if you have no experience/confidence/ability at creating a game, but if you are genuinely good, then surely you should have a go at creating a product on your own and seeing if it sells?

I'm a great believer in the entrepreneurial spirit and everybody should at least try once, in their lives, to do something they feel passionately about, on their own. If it works...it could become massive (I believe that the owner of OCUK did this). If it fails, you put it down to experience and then get a "job", working for a company.
 
Not read the thread, but in short you really need to work out what you actually want to do.

Wanting to work in games simply won't cut it, you need to be good at something in particular.
 
sunama said:
He is doing well for himself because he is damn good at what he does.

TBH, if you are good at any profession (plumbing/carpentry/programming, etc), you should be able to make a good living out of it, regardless of what your background is. Of course, you have to be able to show "something", to demonstrate that you are good; for gaming, this is where your portfolio comes in.

Here's a question: for those of you looking to work in games (coding/design) - have you not thought about working for yourself? Somebody suggested making small IPhone games/applications. To me, this seems like a no-brainer, especially if you are genuinely good.

There are obviously a lot of people who are craving to a get a games-related "job", when they may in fact find better success/money, if they try going it alone.

I can understand if you have no experience/confidence/ability at creating a game, but if you are genuinely good, then surely you should have a go at creating a product on your own and seeing if it sells?

I'm a great believer in the entrepreneurial spirit and everybody should at least try once, in their lives, to do something they feel passionately about, on their own. If it works...it could become massive (I believe that the owner of OCUK did this). If it fails, you put it down to experience and then get a "job", working for a company.
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"Here at Harvard everyone believes that it is better to create a job then to find one" :D:D
 
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