games developer??

sunama · 16 Apr 2011 at 22:30

franco_22 said:
"Here at Harvard everyone believes that it is better to create a job then to find one"

LOL yeah. But isn't that true?

If you can create your own idea, push it forward, get funding for it then successfully realise the product/service...you will enjoy it far more than if you were basically doing the same job, for a company which you did not (part) own.

semi-pro waster · 16 Apr 2011 at 22:37

shifty_uk said:
Does anyone know the kind of salary a conceptual/2D artist working in this kind of field in the UK would expect to get?

I've only got a loose idea as a few mates are in this area and we don't tend to directly discuss money but given it will depend on location/experience/talent it's difficult to be too precise anyway. I would however suggest you consider whether working in the games industry is something you really want to do and are passionate about, from an outsiders point of view the money seems to be alright but you can often get more from other similar lines of work (films/marketing/advertising) and it can be very demanding on your time working in the games industry - I don't want to put you off but it's wise to be as informed as you can before joining up.

Another thing they don't tell you is that for many people working in the games industry seems to rather take the mystique out of games - you'll probably look at it with a much more critical eye and possibly enjoy it less. That said a few of my mates who work in the industry weren't particularly into games to begin with but started to play them more after working on some.

Rroff · 17 Apr 2011 at 12:03

semi-pro waster said:
Another thing they don't tell you is that for many people working in the games industry seems to rather take the mystique out of games - you'll probably look at it with a much more critical eye and possibly enjoy it less. That said a few of my mates who work in the industry weren't particularly into games to begin with but started to play them more after working on some.

I find myself noticing say tiled textures or second guessing the level designer (and knowing whats gonna happen next) and stuff like that in some games which does kinda ruin the experience but I still find a well designed game can absorb me for hours.

ZombieFan · 17 Apr 2011 at 12:50

sunama said:
Here's a question: for those of you looking to work in games (coding/design) - have you not thought about working for yourself? Somebody suggested making small IPhone games/applications. To me, this seems like a no-brainer, especially if you are genuinely good.

I agree with this. If you think you want to get into the games industry but haven't actually made a game then give it a go first... You might even make some money out of it

Demoniser · 17 Apr 2011 at 13:37

Rroff said:
I find myself noticing say tiled textures or second guessing the level designer (and knowing whats gonna happen next) and stuff like that in some games which does kinda ruin the experience but I still find a well designed game can absorb me for hours.

Lol same, once you know how it's actually done with stuff like tiled textures and repeating the same environment assets.

I'm often like 'oh i see what they did there,thats been tiled, thats the same texture i saw in the last level/zone, but just changed slightly, thats the same environment prop etc.

I wouldn't say it's really ruined the experience it just makes you aware of how things are actually done..under the hood. You look at things in a critical way true, but it also works in reverse. You notice things that have been done really well more readily.

shifty_uk · 17 Apr 2011 at 20:23

semi-pro waster said:
I've only got a loose idea as a few mates are in this area and we don't tend to directly discuss money but given it will depend on location/experience/talent it's difficult to be too precise anyway. I would however suggest you consider whether working in the games industry is something you really want to do and are passionate about, from an outsiders point of view the money seems to be alright but you can often get more from other similar lines of work (films/marketing/advertising) and it can be very demanding on your time working in the games industry - I don't want to put you off but it's wise to be as informed as you can before joining up.

Another thing they don't tell you is that for many people working in the games industry seems to rather take the mystique out of games - you'll probably look at it with a much more critical eye and possibly enjoy it less. That said a few of my mates who work in the industry weren't particularly into games to begin with but started to play them more after working on some.

Thanks SPW. It wasn't specifically the games industry I was interested in, it was more the position and job. I'm aware of the film industry but I didn't realise there was similar positions in advertising and so forth that had relatively better pay? Movies appear from the outside to be much more competitive.

I've played my fair share, like most but I'm not much of a gamer so where the 'magic' is concerned, there wouldn't be much to lose, I don't imagine.

sunama · 17 Apr 2011 at 20:37

shifty_uk said:
... I didn't realise there was similar positions in advertising and so forth that had relatively better pay?

Jobs in sales/marketing tend to carry pretty healthy salaries. The reason for this is because these departments (and job roles), will actually bring in customers to buy products and services from the company.

A company can make as many games (or any other product) as it wants, but if it has a weak sales/marketing/advertising team, it won't sell many products/services.

Put it another way, you can sell a poor product if you have a great sales/marketing/advertising team.

But its tough to sell a great product if you have a poor sales/marketing/advertising team.

For this reason, people who are good at sales and marketing command high salaries and quite often are some of the highest paid (non-management) people in a company.

TheMeekon · 18 Apr 2011 at 11:46

shifty_uk said:
Thanks SPW. It wasn't specifically the games industry I was interested in, it was more the position and job. I'm aware of the film industry but I didn't realise there was similar positions in advertising and so forth that had relatively better pay? Movies appear from the outside to be much more competitive.

I've played my fair share, like most but I'm not much of a gamer so where the 'magic' is concerned, there wouldn't be much to lose, I don't imagine.

Shifty, not having a go but a bit of advice. Use reference, everything is based on reference and your hindering yourself by trying to prove you don't need it. Take a read:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216369

cHk4 · 18 Apr 2011 at 12:43

Ok maybe someone could help me out. I would love to get in to game programming/creation. I don't really desire to do it as a job but more of a hobby I guess although if I got good enough I guess a job would be cool.

Anyway, when I was about 14 ( 12 years ago ) I started dabbling around with basic programming in VB and C#. Forgot most of it over the years and would like to start again.

I have great ideas and have seen some of my ideas being put to use in other smaller projects and private servers for MMOs I've played. I also can design some good maps some of which are still in use today ( not FPS maps MMO maps. )

I'm not really interested in creating fully fledged 3D games but more in to 2D games and 2.5D Isometric games. Ideally I'd like to create a MMO more so than anything but want to start somewhere...

Can someone point me in the right direction please it would be appreciated.

yer_averagejoe · 18 Apr 2011 at 12:49

Sounds like the mobile market is the ideal sector for you. If you really do have good ideas, they can be turned into games relatively easily on iOS/android and you could make a bit of money from it too.

shifty_uk · 18 Apr 2011 at 12:51

sunama said:
Jobs in sales/marketing tend to carry pretty healthy salaries. The reason for this is because these departments (and job roles), will actually bring in customers to buy products and services from the company.

A company can make as many games (or any other product) as it wants, but if it has a weak sales/marketing/advertising team, it won't sell many products/services.

Put it another way, you can sell a poor product if you have a great sales/marketing/advertising team.

But its tough to sell a great product if you have a poor sales/marketing/advertising team.

For this reason, people who are good at sales and marketing command high salaries and quite often are some of the highest paid (non-management) people in a company.

Thanks for the advice, I shall keep my options open and look into things

bAz^uk said:
Shifty, not having a go but a bit of advice. Use reference, everything is based on reference and your hindering yourself by trying to prove you don't need it. Take a read:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=216369

I only recently realised this, Baz. At the back of my mind, I thought being able to work without references was a far greater feat. How wrong I was.

As you can see, most of the recently sketches I've stuck on my Blog have been done using references. The lighting, proportions, everything is far better, imo and with time an eye for what's right and wrong should develop. I'm self taught in the arts so it's a learning curve

Thanks.

sunama · 18 Apr 2011 at 13:09

How long did this take you?
http://ryanfindlay.tumblr.com/post/4634803877/quick-sketch-of-my-girl

And also, was this sketch done on paper and then scanned into the computer or was it done directly on a computer?

shifty_uk · 18 Apr 2011 at 13:20

That one was done directly onto the computer. Spent 40 minutes on the line drawing and initial rendering then went back to it for another 10-15 minutes to fix the face shading

TheMeekon · 18 Apr 2011 at 15:22

shifty_uk said:
Thanks for the advice, I shall keep my options open and look into things

I only recently realised this, Baz. At the back of my mind, I thought being able to work without references was a far greater feat. How wrong I was.

As you can see, most of the recently sketches I've stuck on my Blog have been done using references. The lighting, proportions, everything is far better, imo and with time an eye for what's right and wrong should develop. I'm self taught in the arts so it's a learning curve

Thanks.

Nice one, thought you was going to give me a slap in the face for making that suggestion. Surprising how many people do.

We really should have a thread for everyone art to be displayed?

shifty_uk · 18 Apr 2011 at 15:38

Haha, nah. I take everything on board, I've learned the errors of my ways

A sketch/general art thread would be good, I think it's been suggested before but I'm not sure if many would participate.

DailyGeek · 18 Apr 2011 at 15:40

I knew people would knock train2game without much more knowledge than rumour. If you look into the syllabus and the structure of the course it's great, and is built around helping you create a portfolio. I can only talk about the development course (C++) of course, not the art etc.

The thread has moved away from that, granted, I just don't think people should discount it as an option as it offers something to people in my situation.

_Gizka_ · 18 Apr 2011 at 15:48

bAz^uk said:
Nice one, thought you was going to give me a slap in the face for making that suggestion. Surprising how many people do.

We really should have a thread for everyone art to be displayed?

There is a 3D sketchbook thread kicking around somewhere, but it didn't really take off

Haircut · 18 Apr 2011 at 16:01

cHk4 said:
Anyway, when I was about 14 ( 12 years ago ) I started dabbling around with basic programming in VB and C#. Forgot most of it over the years and would like to start again.

Umm, 12 years ago C# didn't exist (except in some dev labs in Microsoft probably) so I don't suppose you would have done too much of it back then!

AGD · 18 Apr 2011 at 16:01

Ok, I'll weigh in here. What follows concerns dev jobs only (programmers/scripters/engineers - for console development).

From speaking to developers it seems the best path is to do a traditional degree (maths, comp sci, physics, or engineering) at the best uni you can (Russell group standard). In your own time, whilst studying your degree, you should be working on your programming skills (C++ and C# are most important in that order) and making a few good demos/games. If you do this and get a 2.1 for your degree, you will be exactly what they are looking for.

I don't really rate the undergrad games course at abertay - they have no decent programmers teaching on it and no one with recent, high-level industry experience on the teaching staff either. Also, the general level of programming among the students is low. That is not to say that some of the students aren't very good, just that if they are it is because they themselves read a lot and worked hard, and not because of the course. As abertay is frequently rated as better than any other games course, other games courses are not recommended at all.

sunama · 18 Apr 2011 at 16:40

AGD said:
From speaking to developers it seems the best path is to do a traditional degree (maths, comp sci, physics, or engineering) at the best uni you can (Russell group standard). In your own time, whilst studying your degree, you should be working on your programming skills (C++ and C# are most important in that order) and making a few good demos/games. If you do this and get a 2.1 for your degree, you will be exactly what they are looking for.

If somebody meets those requirements, what sort of starting salary can they expect?