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GameWorks and TreeFX we testing these Wrong!

I can download and use GameWorks just by registering and no cost at all. My latest email informed me of GameWorks VR tech.

https://developer.nvidia.com/what-is-gameworks

Licensing
Many NVIDIA GameWorks components including tools, samples and binaries are freely available to all developers. For other binary or source code access please contact us at Game Works Licensing: [email protected]


Here is the PhysX Source code:
https://developer.nvidia.com/physx-source-github
The very same PhysX used by Project CARS, the physX that AMD claimed was giving NVidia an unfair advantage and they couldn't optimize with out the source code. :D



Never let the facts get in the way of some good trolling!
 
This I didn't know! Is this the latest gameworks? And which is it the "black box" version im assumin as source code must have licencing fees. Still don't know.

No idea as I haven't looked in a long while but a while back someone stated that you had to be screened etc but I registered and 5 mins later had access to the GameWorks libraries. I am not a developer or coder but this big conspiracy just isn't happening.
 
I do not understand though, You are all complaining yet you supported this by buying the game... You basically sent a signal to Nvidia and Beth that you like Gameworks and lots of effects that drain GPU power for no real reason.


Even G-Sync has a 1.32% performance hit and that is just one small part. You could very easily see how someone could lose 20% just from this scenario. And it just so happens that would be bang on the increase from thier next gpus rofl. Honestly this problem is so simple and easy to solve yet you all find it so hard to say no and stop it. So i ask again who is to blame?
 
I do not understand though, You are all complaining yet you supported this by buying the game... You basically sent a signal to Nvidia and Beth that you like Gameworks and lots of effects that drain GPU power for no real reason.


Even G-Sync has a 1.32% performance hit and that is just one small part. You could very easily see how someone could lose 20% just from this scenario. And it just so happens that would be bang on the increase from thier next gpus rofl. Honestly this problem is so simple and easy to solve yet you all find it so hard to say no and stop it. So i ask again who is to blame?

It's easy to solve by turning it off or using low though.

If I did not buy something because I did not like something about the company or technology, I would be pretty bored. I would have no car, no job, no pc, no TV, No Internet, no Sky TV, no electric, no gas.

Small sacrifices are made hence I pay money for things I want.
 
I do not understand though, You are all complaining yet you supported this by buying the game... You basically sent a signal to Nvidia and Beth that you like Gameworks and lots of effects that drain GPU power for no real reason.


Even G-Sync has a 1.32% performance hit and that is just one small part. You could very easily see how someone could lose 20% just from this scenario. And it just so happens that would be bang on the increase from thier next gpus rofl. Honestly this problem is so simple and easy to solve yet you all find it so hard to say no and stop it. So i ask again who is to blame?

Pretend it didn't have GameWorks or TressFX by turning it off and then you have the vanilla game and everyone is a winner.
 
Don't like [X]? Turn it off.

This is the beauty of PC gaming.

Some people are comfortable with:

1) 30 fps average, with dips
2) 60 fps average, with dips
3) 60 fps minimum
4) 144 fps minimum
5) any framerate as long as there are absolutely no jaggies in sight (4x4 supersampling, or even higher)
6) any other number of arbitrary requirements their personal standards dictate

Find the graphics settings that work best for you and your personal standards, and use them. If you're going to complain that an effect, setting or rendering technique "ruins performance", you'd best find another universe to live in because that's always going to happen, depending on your standards.

The presets that exist in games are just a collection of variables set by the developer at a standard they think is appropriate.

"Very High" means nothing.

Move on.
 
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It's not just Nvidia's God Rays that had a performance hit. STALKER Clear Skies has them too but the performance hit was apparently close to 50% (at the time). Nothing to do with Nvidia that one.

Also in Fallout 4 "God Rays" aren't just God Rays, according to Nvidia:


and



I'll be honest, not sure I can tell the difference between all that or if humbug's examples have all those aspects, but the performance hit (which is apparently 6.5fps) if for all those things I believe.

Also, when someone uses GameWorks or TressFX, are the effects rendered within the engine or separate from it?
Cuz if they're rendered within the engine then sure that has to be considered as well as the library's implementation. So comparing a performance hit in Fallout 4's engine with the hit in CryEngine would become less meaningful. If the engine in use doesn't matter, then it's a fair comparison.

If it does matter then the same issue applies comparing Tomb Raider to Witcher 3, you'd not just be comparing the libraries, but also the engine they're rendering in.

You are correct of course in that such features depend on the sophistication of the engine the game is built on, Cryengine is one of if not thie most sophisticated engines in existence, the only engine i can think of which gives it a run for its worth is Frostbite Engine.

Having said that there is nothing all that sophisticated about having a visible and shadow casing light volume, which would be the Sun, but added light entities can do the same thing for localised Volumetric Lighting.

The one in Cryengine 'in the form of the sun' is permanent and it is streamed dynamically, you can have it run a 24 hour cycle and it will cast shadows at the correct angle as it moves round, it will even change its size, colour and bloom, all of that is also completely adjustable.

I can and have added multiple light entities that are exactly the same thing, the Sun is just such a light entity pinned to the sky.
Now there is a cost when i add more and more of them, its a CPU cost tha amounts to about 1 or 2% per entity.

What adds to the effect in creating dark and light area's within the atmosphere is Volumetric Fog, the light from said light entities interacts with it in the same way it does with HDR surfaces creating a specular map that illuminates area's exposed to the light and shadows in those that aren't.

None of this is new, what irks me a little bit about this is firstly Nvidia using sentences like this.

Generally, when folks refer to Volumetric Lighting they mean God Rays, Light Shafts, or Light Rays, but in the case of Fallout 4 NVIDIA Volumetric Lighting is so much more, reflecting light and adding illumination, shadow volume and considerable style to every outdoor scene

In addition, NVIDIA Volumetric Lighting effects are affected by weather conditions, the dynamic day-night cycle, visual effects, and other factors, giving the world a truly dynamic appearance.
As if its something new and invented by Nvidia, as if you can only get this from Nvidia.

And secondly some Developers using Nvidia's version of it and the crippling performance that comes with it when this stuff has been around for so long you have to ask "why they haven't got to grips with it themselves?".

I can't stress this enough, Nvidia are NOT inventing anything new, all they are doing by using their plug in and play libraries is making themselves dependant on Nvidia and at the expense of their end users.
The reason these things had a high performance cost back in thier early days is because they were undeveloped, bar a few they never will get developed if they depend on Nvidia to feed them this stuff

 
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Just want to point this out about TressFX and people thinking it was the first iteration of Hair physics. This was from Alcie: Madness Returns and very impressed with how good it looks and it is very old.


TressFX copied it and does a good job but only available in 2 games (one if you are an Nvidia user) and pretty much the same for this. A shame really, as Alice Madness Returns is a gem of a game and very playable.

Oooo and to show how much I liked it, I recorded it some time back but forgot about it :D

 
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You are correct of course in that such features depend on the sophistication of the engine the game is built on, Cryengine is one of if not thie most sophisticated engines in existence, the only engine i can think of which gives it a run for its worth is Frostbite Engine.

Having said that there is nothing all that sophisticated about having a visible and shadow casing light volume, which would be the Sun, but added light entities can do the same thing for localised Volumetric Lighting.

The one in Cryengine 'in the form of the sun' is permanent and it is streamed dynamically, you can have it run a 24 hour cycle and it will cast shadows at the correct angle as it moves round, it will even change its size, colour and bloom, all of that is also completely adjustable.

I can and have added multiple light entities that are exactly the same thing, the Sun is just such a light entity pinned to the sky.
Now there is a cost when i add more and more of them, its a CPU cost tha amounts to about 1 or 2% per entity.

What adds to the effect in creating dark and light area's within the atmosphere is Volumetric Fog, the light from said light entities interacts with it in the same way it does with HDR surfaces creating a specular map that illuminates area's exposed to the light and shadows in those that aren't.

None of this is new, what irks me a little bit about this is firstly Nvidia using sentences like this.

As if its something new and invented by Nvidia, as if you can only get this from Nvidia.

And secondly some Developers using Nvidia's version of it and the crippling performance that comes with it when this stuff has been around for so long you have to ask "why they haven't got to grips with it themselves?".

I can't stress this enough, Nvidia are NOT inventing anything new, all they are doing by using their plug in and play libraries is making themselves dependant on Nvidia and at the expense of their end users.
The reason these things had a high performance cost back in thier early days is because they were undeveloped, bar a few they never will get developed if they depend on Nvidia to feed them this stuff


So how many sources are Nvidia using in their implementation?
Does your example have all the things mentioned in that Nvidia quote (reflecting light and adding illumination, shadow volume and affected by weather conditions)?

Do you really consider 6.5fps crippling performance? Or is everyone insisting on using Ultra God Rays to get an overinflated figure despite saying they can see no difference?

I also have to laugh that you dislike a company that wrote it's own engine when they use 3rd party libraries and then do all your demos in a 3rd party engine...
Out of interest, are you using a 3rd party implementation of God Rays in the CryEngine (for example CryEngine's inbuilt implementation, if it has one) or are you writing it from scratch?

What would be interesting is to see how much of a performance hit you'd get from implementing God Rays in the Fallout 4 engine without a 3rd party library. Obvious I realise you don't have access to the Fallout 4 engine, I'm just saying it would be interesting and far more relevant.

Sort of have to wonder why Bethesda stuck with upgrading their old Skyrim engine rather than using the Unreal, CryEngine or Frostbite engine.
 
So how many sources are Nvidia using in their implementation?
Does your example have all the things mentioned in that Nvidia quote (reflecting light and adding illumination, shadow volume and affected by weather conditions)?

Do you really consider 6.5fps crippling performance? Or is everyone insisting on using Ultra God Rays to get an overinflated figure despite saying they can see no difference?

I also have to laugh that you dislike a company that wrote it's own engine when they use 3rd party libraries and then do all your demos in a 3rd party engine...
Out of interest, are you using a 3rd party implementation of God Rays in the CryEngine (for example CryEngine's inbuilt implementation, if it has one) or are you writing it from scratch?

What would be interesting is to see how much of a performance hit you'd get from implementing God Rays in the Fallout 4 engine without a 3rd party library. Obvious I realise you don't have access to the Fallout 4 engine, I'm just saying it would be interesting and far more relevant.

Sort of have to wonder why Bethesda stuck with upgrading their old Skyrim engine rather than using the Unreal, CryEngine or Frostbite engine.

I would love to sit whoever is the lead down get him tipsy and say right OUT WITH IT! Basically Cryengine, UE5 or Frostbite are all capable of amazing things. I mean visually just look at Battlefront and imagine putting in all thier dirty Gameworks! But serious, How much time was spent upgrading an old donkey when it should have been humanely put down? The engine is broken because if they think having wonky physics and this level of performance for those visuals is ok then they are deluded.


I ran Skyrm in Dec 14, Finnished in Jan 15 put 160 hours into it @ 120hz and died to many kettles and lost many 1k gold horses due to randomly being sent up 1000ft in the air! None of this nonsense would happen in any other engine and it would look just as good if not better. Because i have read in revews there are bad animations in the engine still for lips. This is just how i rememember Fallout 3, Hard to run at max plagued by stutters and with the most god awful walking and talking animations i have ever seen.


I still have not played Fallout 3 i simply messed about for around 5 hours and uninstalled. :(
 
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Squad does Sun rays very decent. UE4
F756DF7092303CF3F11E848C0A9F235E2D77A933

B472BD0DB65A7C7B0BE2C14A8CBFA5B147410C58

3BCE292F65813440F50605179B96567BB9D82FE0


FA0B07A5938EBAE4301968EF8D7BD081C9BB4199
 
UE4 is also pretty good ^^^^

@ Googlay. had they used Cryengine or Frostbyte they wouldn't have needed GameWorks for Volumetric Fog and Light.

I agree with Rofflay
 
How much is the cost? I last heard a million dollars or so? I personally can find no arguement for not doing it considering the amount of profits that game generated. How many platforms is it on again? Three? I hate nothing more than people doing that and making a killing in profits it just shows a complete lack of respect and care.


But on thier side, They are all middle aged men who probably game in-house at 4K with SLI 980ti on the Bethesda machine. If you look at the benchmarks it would equal a lovely 60fps at 4K. They probably did this and thought yep that runs amazing this is going to be great for all of our customers! Our console base already has performance pre-chosen for them so really the only people who are affected here is the low % of people compared to the console and 60fps crowd. I guess i just explained to myself then why they think the engine is fine. :)
 
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