Gaming PC, bit of help?

[LukieBoy007]

The 6870 is still a very nice card, especially if running on a lower res 19" screen
It also allows you to fit an i5 in.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The b-grade HD7850 2GB has been sold now. Also,for a lot of newer games the FX6300 is similar speed to a Core i3 3220 or faster. An example is BF3 MP where the FX6300 is around 15% faster overall.

I would also get a new HDD as there seems to be only 1 B-grade 3TB too.

I would add this HDD:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-024-TS&groupid=1657&catid=1660&subcat=1665

The Bitfenix Merc Alpha can take long cards(even an HD6990 AFAIK).

I would also add this optical drive:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CD-003-OK&groupid=701&catid=10&subcat=

The total should come to around £484.

The 1GB HD7850 should be OK with a reasonable amount of games ATM. However the 2GB will probably last longer but costs around £24 more:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-052-HS

Edit!!

The OP might be able to include a Core i5 within budget if they don't mind going for a B-grade motherboard:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BG-252-GI&groupid=595&catid=689&subcat=

They could get this CPU:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-432-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=567

The build would come to around £494. However,I am not sure if the motherboard needs to have an updated BIOS to run an IB CPU,ie,would it boot with the IB CPU in place??

 

[LukieBoy007]

I'd rather go with the build with the 6870 tbh as a 7850 is overkill for his screen, and the i5 simply treads all over the 6300. The graphics card is also simpler to upgrade.

 

[honosuseri]

PLease don't spec the Merc Alpha or Beta. It has no USB3 ports and next to no cable management. I have personally used it, the only thing I liked is the case badge which now lives on the back of my phone

If the 3TB drive sells there is a 1TB version with the extra cache.

YOUR BASKET
1 x Intel Core i5-3570K 3.40GHz (Ivybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor (77W) - Retail £167.99
1 x **B Grade** XFX HD 6870 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £79.99
1 x Asus P8Z77-V LX2 Intel Z77 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £69.98
1 x **B Grade** Seagate Barracuda 7200RPM 1TB SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache - OEM (S (HD-257-SE) £50.00
1 x Patriot Viper "Black Mamba" Generation 3 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (PV38G160C9K) £41.99
1 x XFX Pro 450W Core Edition '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply £39.95
1 x Xigmatek Asgard Pro Gaming Case - Black £32.99
1 x OcUK 24x DVD±RW SATA ReWriter (Black) - OEM £16.99
Total : £513.98 (includes shipping : £11.75).

 

[dunn2010]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/540?vs=549

compares 6870 to the 7850 considering that 6870 cost 80 quid less id say its more than a bargain. (or 50 quid less that the 1gb version 7850)

and paired up with I5 thats a whole lot of build for the money

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

PLease don't spec the Merc Alpha or Beta.

Don't order me around. Moreover using your tone please don't spec a secondhand HDD which only ever had one in stock either.

I'd rather go with the build with the 6870 tbh as a 7850 is overkill for his screen, and the i5 simply treads all over the 6300. The graphics card is also simpler to upgrade.

The FX6300 walks over a Core i3 in games like BF3,and so does the Core i5,so why don't you say the Core i5 walks over a Core i3?? Funny that,especially when I also suggested alternatives.

Considering that I had a Core i3(now on Xeon E3),people seem to put the Core i3 on some pedestal of brilliance while never owning them.

The HD5850 1GB/HD6870 1GB are already hitting issues now. I actually use one of them now. Even with the same amount of VRAM,the HD7850 1GB is at least 30% faster overall in things like BF3.

The tessellation ability of the HD5000/HD6000 is starting to be a limitation now.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/540?vs=549

compares 6870 to the 7850 considering that 6870 cost 80 quid less id say its more than a bargain. (or 50 quid less that the 1gb version 7850)

and paired up with I5 thats a whole lot of build for the money

Anandtech Bench for GPU uses old drivers,and is never a good thing to use.

The single fan HD6870 runs hot,unlike the dual fan versions which were the standard XFX fare.

Moreover,perhaps some of you conveniently ignore the RMA procedures of XFX which are horrible.

They do not do full replacements in many cases and do partial refunds on time used.

Moreover,considering that I actually showed away to get both a Core i5 and a HD7850 into the build,yeah both can be done.

OcUK had loads of that Z68 motherboard and the feedback is at least from people like Martini1991 is they are in good condition,and it was decent budget Z68 board at the time. I suspect they were the new RMA replacement stock which OcUK probably got a deal on.

 

[dunn2010]

The i3 is good, i had a clarkdale i3 540 @ 3ghz 6-7 months back and it never bottlenecked me in any game nor did it drop my perfomance. and thats the old generation I3, the new ivybridge is even better.

end of day he most likely wont see a real world difference using either the i3 or 6300 however i3 has better upgrade path in future.

and anandtech is reliable.

6870 does run hotter and louder than the 7850 but it costs a whole lot less for not much of a dip in performance.

6300+7850 or i5+6870 is what this comes down too

i know which one i would pick.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The i3 is good, i had a clarkdale i3 540 @ 3ghz 6-7 months back and it never bottlenecked me in any game nor did it drop my perfomance. and thats the old generation I3, the new ivybridge is even better.

end of day he most likely wont see a real world difference using either the i3 or 6300 however i3 has better upgrade path in future.

So basically you would recommend a slower CPU(Core i3) just because of brand preference?? So,basically a slower CPU which will be more hampered by newer engines which needs to be upgraded quicker??

I had the Core i3 2100 with an HD5850 1GB and a mate who built a PC with a FX6300 with the same card,and the latter was faster in lots of cases.
I had to upgrade to a Core i5 eventually,and if the Core i3 was at least as fast as the FX6300 in a number of newer games then I would still be using it.

and anandtech is reliable.

6870 does run hotter and louder than the 7850 but it costs a whole lot less for not much of a dip in performance.

6300+7850 or i5+6870 is what this comes down too

i know which one i would pick.

Sorry,Anandtech makes mistakes too,and there have been many threads talking about this. However,the GPU Bench and the CPU Bench tend not to get updated that quickly so especially with the GPU bench you are just looking at useless figures.

Moreover,suggesting one of the hottest running HD6870 cards from a company with very poor RMA procedures, with graphics card, is not what I would do when helping someone. XFX graphics card RMA is horrendously bad.

I never recommended that card years ago and not today either.

Why do you think OcUK does not sell new XFX graphics cards anymore ??

On top of this,you conveniently ignore the fact,that you can get a Core i5 and HD7850 into the budget anyway.

That Z68 motherboard is good.

 

[Martini1991]

PLease don't spec the Merc Alpha or Beta. It has no USB3 ports and next to no cable management. I have personally used it, the only thing I liked is the case badge which now lives on the back of my phone

You were doing it wrong then.
I've used it twice in gaming rigs, it's not bad at all, I could achieve pretty much the same cable management I could with the Xigamatek Asgard, possibly better, I can't fully remember, but it certainly looked quite clean given I was using a none modular PSU.

Think I'd get a B-Grade Gigabyte Z68 board and try and squeeze an i5 3330 in at 500 quid, even if it meant adding a little more.

And I echo Cat's opinion on XFX. I had two XFX 6870 BE's, the noise and heat was horrendous for stock cards, my launch day Sapphire 6870's were a lot better.

 

[dunn2010]

I had to upgrade to a Core i5 eventually,and if the Core i3 was at least as fast as the FX6300 in a number of newer games then I would still be using it.

you had to upgrade to an i5 for what reason? i ran my i3 with my 660ti and i could run bf3 everything full and ultra and the cpu was hammering it. think you may have failed somewhere.

and if there was no room to upgrade in future then the 6300 would be smarter choice. i didnt say i3 as its slower cos its intel. i said ppick i3 as it has easy upgrade path to i5.

On top of this,you conveniently ignore the fact,that you can get a Core i5 and HD7850 into the budget anyway.

i don't ignore it. i've acknowledged it. hence the 6870. then upgrade gpu a year down the line and you have a boss rig.

 

[honosuseri]

CAT lose the attitude fella. I wasn't ordering you around, it was a polite request. I am providing personal experience, the Merc alpha and beta is naff and I explained why. The Asgard Pro is a better case although not in stock currently (he can still place the order though), the NZXT 210 is £40 and a better alternative granted it is more money.

In my post I said there was 1TB version with 64MB cache (5 in stock) if the 3TB sells, I even added it to a spec to show this, I dont get your point at all. They are a better drives than the toshiba but that's a good alternative for sure new.

The only AMD socket I will recommend is the FM2 socket and that's for tight budget gaming builds. As Dunn has said there is a better upgrade path on the 1155 socket, it also has a lower power consumption and quick sync for video encoding. The Z68 mobo is an option, if you check it's supported CPU list it will take Ivybridge just fine. However being B grade it could well be missing the I/O shield, sata cables etc etc. it does lack the lucidMVP software as well if that matters to the OP

I'm all for differing specs, I'm not trying to Shhhh you, we just need to discuss the options to help the OP get a better understanding how to balance a build himself. The i5K in on offer currently (will soon go back up in price) so it would be nice to work it into a spec which is what I have done.

You were doing it wrong then.
I've used it twice in gaming rigs, it's not bad at all, I could achieve pretty much the same cable management I could with the Xigamatek Asgard, possibly better, I can't fully remember, but it certainly looked quite clean given I was using a none modular PSU.

Think I'd get a B-Grade Gigabyte Z68 board and try and squeeze an i5 3330 in at 500 quid, even if it meant adding a little more.

And I echo Cat's opinion on XFX. I had two XFX 6870 BE's, the noise and heat was horrendous for stock cards, my launch day Sapphire 6870's were a lot better.

The case still lacks USB3 ports, granted you can buy the USB3 I/O panel but that's false economy. It's an old case and there are better alternatives. I've used the 6870 as at £90 even if you underclocked it, it would still be better than a 7770 which is poor value for money. It allowed the i5K in the spec and changing the GPU is easier than the CPU I think we can all agree on. Maybe he could consider a 2nd hand 1GB 460 (£50ish) instead if he could find one as we discussed on another thread

 

[LukieBoy007]

On top of this,you conveniently ignore the fact,that you can get a Core i5 and HD7850 into the budget anyway.

Then why on earth would you spec a 6300?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

you had to upgrade to an i5 for what reason? i ran my i3 with my 660ti and i could run bf3 everything full and ultra and the cpu was hammering it. think you may have failed somewhere.

and if there was no room to upgrade in future then the 6300 would be smarter choice. i didnt say i3 as its slower cos its intel. i said ppick i3 as it has easy upgrade path to i5.

Sites like pcgameshardware tested the FX6300 and IB Core i3 3240 with BF3 MP,and found that the Core i3 was 8FPS faster with a higher end card. They are not even the first site who looked at this,even a flipping BD based FX6100 CPU was faster than a Core i3 2100 in BF3 MP maps.

I actually bothered to look at CPU usage and GPU usage and my HD5850 1GB was falling below 100% utilisation in a number of games. I thought,I would keep the CPU for another year and get a new shiny graphics card,but it seems the CPU needed upgrading first,and yes I made sure my CPU was performing normally by running standard benchmarks and comparing the results with published ones.

I actually managed to get into MW:Beta and the CPU was a bottleneck and I thought that was one off. Tried the Crysis3 Alpha and it was the same.
I can actually run BL2 with medium PhysX now for parts of the game,and even with PhysX at low I noticed minimums are better with the Core i5. BL2 also appears to thread well. They are not the only instance.

i don't ignore it. i've acknowledged it. hence the 6870. then upgrade gpu a year down the line and you have a boss rig.

So again you recommending a very poor HD6870 model, with a single fan from a company with horrendous RMA procedures based on time used. Great.

Then why on earth would you spec a 6300?

I suggested both. People suggested Core i3 CPUs,and the FX6300 is a better alternative IMHO. So criticise that too.

Again,a Core i3 will need upgrading quicker anyway,so this is why I also looked at getting a Core i5 into the build too,NOT a Core i3.

 

[Martini1991]

The case still lacks USB3 ports, granted you can buy the USB3 I/O panel but that's false economy. It's an old case and there are better alternatives. I've used the 6870 as at £90 even if you underclocked it, it would still be better than a 7770 which is poor value for money. It allowed the i5K in the spec and changing the GPU is easier than the CPU I think we can all agree on.

I can understand the wanting of a USB 3.0 case, but don't see the need.
I don't actually know anyone with any USB 3.0 devices, and any used would go in the board 3.0 ports.

But if you can get a decent case with a 3.0 slot, then that's great.

I've used the 6870 myself, I'd choose it over a 7770, just not the XFX variant.

 

[honosuseri]

I can understand the wanting of a USB 3.0 case, but don't see the need.
I don't actually know anyone with any USB 3.0 devices, and any used would go in the board 3.0 ports.

But if you can get a decent case with a 3.0 slot, then that's great.

I've used the 6870 myself, I'd choose it over a 7770, just not the XFX variant.

They are cheap cases we can't expect the world from them, for the sake of an extra couple of quid it's nice to have the front USB3 port. Yes I take your point he might not need it now but chances are he will keep the case for some time and it might come in handy in the future. The Merc case comes with a single 120mm fan, the asgard pro or the NZXT 210 has two 120mm fans preinstalled and the USB3 port so it really does make more sense to me.

I have not personally used that XFX 6870, if you guys have and say it's rubbish then I shall take your word for it. Buying a 1GB 7850 seems false economy to me, so as I said a 2nd hand 1GB 460 perhaps? That would add CUDA support and PhysX and they do overclock well, my EVGA is at 875MHz core and 2200 for the VRAM. Still performs well with the new drivers from nvidia and for £50ish you can't go wrong

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

BTW,Martini1991 IIRC you said you bought at least one of the B-grade Z68 motherboards or was I mistaken??

What bits came with it and do you know if you need a BIOS update for newer IB CPUs??

 

[Martini1991]

I've used a few recent XFX cards, and they're all pretty poor, my XFX 7950 DD's were both louder and hotter (Single GPU) than an MSI 7970 OC at 1125MHZ, doesn't quite make sense.

I used two "reference" XFX 6870 Black Editions which were (Unsurprisingly) hotter and louder than my reference 6870's from Sapphire.

There's a reason OCUK no longer stock XFX cards.

 

[Martini1991]

BTW,Martini1991 IIRC you said you bought at least one of the B-grade Z68 motherboards or was I mistaken??

What bits came with it and do you know if you need a BIOS update for newer IB CPUs??

I've had two.
One came with the I/O plate and sata cables, didn't specify that it was 22nm compatible, but worked without a BIOS flash.

2nd one I had came as the first, but specified 22nm support and Gen 3 support (Not that it makes a difference, the first lane will be PCI-E 3.0 in both boards with an Ivy)

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I've had two.
One came with the I/O plate and sata cables, didn't specify that it was 22nm compatible, but worked without a BIOS flash.

2nd one I had came as the first, but specified 22nm support and Gen 3 support (Not that it makes a difference, the first lane will be PCI-E 3.0 in both boards with an Ivy)

They had like 30 to 40 of them in stock,so I assume they must be just new old stock or new RMA stock OcUK got cheaply from Gigabyte??

 

[honosuseri]

I've had two.
One came with the I/O plate and sata cables, didn't specify that it was 22nm compatible, but worked without a BIOS flash.

2nd one I had came as the first, but specified 22nm support and Gen 3 support (Not that it makes a difference, the first lane will be PCI-E 3.0 in both boards with an Ivy)

On the webpage (i did check) it supports sandy and ivy from the F8 BIOS, I think it's voltage locked though so not ideal for serious overclocking but at £30ish you can't really complain.

When ordering a B grade mobo I would still contact OCuk to check what comes with, it's great that you got basically a complete bundle both times. Bargain