Gender Pay Gap

[Angilion]

I'm just curious what I should call myself instead of a liberal? I'm not a fascist, I'm not a communist, I'm not really a socialist, I'm not a conservative, I'm not anything really apart from a liberal. I guess I could make up a word?

If you find an answer, let me know so I have a handy word for myself too. I would be a liberal under the old definition of the word, but I wouldn't use it now because the de facto meaning has completely changed.

Some people might think that it's possible to reclaim the word "liberal" and turn it back into what it was, i.e. actually liberal. I think that it's been too thoroughly corrupted for that to be possible, but I could be wrong about that.

Thank you for your post by the way . At least someone knows what they are talking about. I blame the Americans for the negative view on the word liberal and liberalism. I also blame them for the negative view libertarianism that has sprung up as well but that is another topic.

I blame the people who corrupted and continue to corrupt the word. I don't blame all the other people who happen to live in the same country as them. Even if they are American

 

[Pestilence]

We're trying to populise the term Classical Liberal

I'm getting stuck recently between that and just saying I'm a Centrist.

It's deeply worrying these days watching some very good friends dive head first down the what-is-now-"Liberal" rabbit hole.

Endless virtue signalling, complete disregard of logical thought over emotion and even consistent advocation of violence for Authoritarian ends (which is totally cool, because the opposition are *insert label* so it's best to hit first lest they soon have you in camps).

The hyperbole is mind-blowing. I just don't understand how they don't recognise the path they're heading down is exactly what they fear.

 

[DAIR]

The gender pay gap issue has always bugged me.

I work in a 2nd Line Team and I am the highest paid member of that team. I am paid more than my 7 counter-parts and we do the same job (on paper) and I'm paid more than my manager.

1 member of my team is a woman, the rest are men.

So there is a pay gap here but not because of gender, but because I am the highest trained member of staff in the team (and I have great negotiation skills )

Surely this is what it comes down to?

If you don't have the balls (I kind of like what I've done there) to either ask or demand more monies. Then you wont get more monies!

 

[dowie]

I wish people would stop saying that everyone who believes in a gender pay gap is a liberal. I'm a liberal and I DON'T agree that there is a pay gap

eh?

even if all people who believe in the gender pay gap were liberal it doesn't follow that all liberals believe in the gender pay gap - the fact you're a self described liberal and don't believe in it isn't relevant

 

[Greebo]

Surely this is what it comes down to?

If you don't have the balls (I kind of like what I've done there) to either ask or demand more monies. Then you wont get more monies!

Which has been proven in studies esp with the pay gap for new graduates. Men were far more likely to ask for more money in interview and even when women asked, the men negotiated harder and better and got more.

Which is why for new graduates there is already a pay gap from men just being ballsy

 

[Angilion]

I'm getting stuck recently between that and just saying I'm a Centrist.

It's deeply worrying these days watching some very good friends dive head first down the what-is-now-"Liberal" rabbit hole.

Endless virtue signalling, complete disregard of logical thought over emotion and even consistent advocation of violence for Authoritarian ends (which is totally cool, because the opposition are *insert label* so it's best to hit first lest they soon have you in camps).

The hyperbole is mind-blowing. I just don't understand how they don't recognise the path they're heading down is exactly what they fear.

Not exactly. What they fear is other people who think the same way - virtue signalling (with different biological groups being deemed virtuous), complete disregard of logical thought over emotion (with the same emotions - irrational prejudice, fear and anger, with anger dominating) and consistent advocation of violence for authoritarian ends (with a different label for everyone who doesn't support them). In short, what they fear isn't being tyrants themselves. It's other people like them being tyrants.

 

[Jokester]

Gender pay gap: What every woman should know
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39513573

Well, the first company has published it's pay data. No surprises, but sadly it will no doubt be twisted to suit an agenda.

Bad legislation that for engineering firms will lead to largely female admin staff being compared to largely male engineering staff.

 

[VincentHanna]

Though they take a median figure, they compare the lowest paid male/female salary, the highest paid male/female salary and two tiers in between.

Bad legislation that for engineering firms will lead to largely female admin staff being compared to largely male engineering staff.

Which should mean things like the above won't happen.

 

[Roar87]

There's already a law stating that you have to pay people the same amount of money, this is just going to encourage positive discrimination when, as pointed out, women in younger age groups already earn more than men

 

[esoteric]

Side question, maybe. In that BBC article it says it's been illegal for 40 years for two people of different genders doing the same job to have different wages.

Can we extrapolate by that law that if One is perhaps a Team Leader and One has the same duties as the Supervisor, should pay be the same? and then if the Supervisor is female One could have grounds to take legal action as there is a gender pay gap.

This is a theoretical question.

 

[Dis86]

Side question, maybe. In that BBC article it says it's been illegal for 40 years for two people of different genders doing the same job to have different wages.

Can we extrapolate by that law that if One is perhaps a Team Leader and One has the same duties as the Supervisor, should pay be the same? and then if the Supervisor is female One could have grounds to take legal action as there is a gender pay gap.

This is a theoretical question.

Duties doesn't equal job. I've had the same duties as someone else I've worked with previously but been paid less as they had a different job title. Our senior management were renowned for it - they'd put a pay-freeze on the company but then all assume new job titles to get more pay.

 

[esoteric]

Duties doesn't equal job. I've had the same duties as someone else I've worked with previously but been paid less as they had a different job title. Our senior management were renowned for it - they'd put a pay-freeze on the company but then all assume new job titles to get more pay.

And that has no grounds to go to tribunal?

 

[jon86]

As someone asked on Twitter, if there is indeed a gender pay gap, why aren't companies filled with just women, if they're supposedly 21% cheaper to employ than men? A company that did that could shave so much off of it's payroll bill!

 

[Dis86]

And that has no grounds to go to tribunal?

Apparently not. They were in a more senior position. They had the word 'global' in front of their title except it was literally no different to mine. I also covered projects over the whole globe.

 

[Dis86]

As someone asked on Twitter, if there is indeed a gender pay gap, why aren't companies filled with just women, if they're supposedly 21% cheaper to employ than men? A company that did that could shave 21% off of it's salary bill!

Lol. I'm sure we could all provide reasons but we'd all just get called sexist!

 

[meths]

The gender pay gap is a misnomer.

If men by default took 9 months off to look after the kids then maybe it would even up a bit.

Maybe men shouldn't be stereotypically forced into being the main breadwinner in the majority of cases and be afforded the same benefits as women by default. While we're at it let's focus on reducing the discrimination against men going into traditionally female professions such as nursing and once true equality actually exists the gender pay gap might disappear altogether.

 

[esoteric]

As someone asked on Twitter, if there is indeed a gender pay gap, why aren't companies filled with just women, if they're supposedly 21% cheaper to employ than men? A company that did that could shave 21% off of it's salary bill!

Because there are "men" jobs and "female" jobs. I've never seen a female mechanic or binwoman, so that's a job that can't fill spaces with women. It's also a council operated service which will have a fixed wage, as many places typically do. So I'm not exactly sure where the wage gap is and have never seen evidence of it. To an every day pedestrian like me when someone says there is a wage gap it makes me think that female bus drivers are paid less then men, or the girls at my work earn 21% less than me, which they don't.

For the recent years this wage gap argument has been going on it's always been a statistic thrown around without hard evidence.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Whist the matters of equal pay and equality are important ones, there's something delicious about listening to an overwhelmingly white, male audience rail against the oppression they face as white males.

 

[Angilion]

Whist the matters of equal pay and equality are important ones, there's something delicious about listening to an overwhelmingly white, male audience rail against the oppression they face as white males.

What has that got to do with this thread? Are you listening to an MRA podcast or something while reading it?

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

What has that got to do with this thread? Are you listening to an MRA podcast or something while reading it?

A recurring theme over the previous 160 comments is how either the pay gap doesn't exist or that somehow women should 'try harder', 'negotiate harder' and generally stop moaning. The undercurrent being that some GD males think that they're being oppressed which I find hilarious in the context of the thread.

It's "but what about ME?!" to the extreme.