Geohot and Fail0verflow are getting sued

I probably won't be allowed to a link to a site with the actual court orders, as it's a site which also contains details on "ps3 hax", but this is a ridiculous move from Sony. Both Geohot and Fail0verflow have said they do not support piracy, and even GeoHots Custom Firmware has loading backup games disabled. All Sony have done now is increase the negative feeling towards them, and more than likely increasing piracy and the efforts of the scene. Sony fired the first shot with the removal of the OtherOS, a feature which many bought the PS3 for, and a lot of the work the scene is doing is re-enabling this feature.

Hopefully the EFF get involved in the same way they did with iPhone jailbreaking. There is nothing wrong with Jailbreaking. The Court Orders actually imply that the hackers actually stole the master code, saying something along the lines of "The other Key is held by SCEA; it is not distributed and cannot be located anywhere in the PS3 Systems code or hardware", which is total BS. Sony will not be able to reverse this, all of the keys are now cracked, it will be trivial to hack new FWs now, all because of a mistake by Sony with their security, and now they are looking for someone to blame.


PSN is rubbish anyway, I am still on 3.41, all my games work flawlessly when backed up (protection of a launch BR drive) including GT5 and I can play SNES games. I have my PC for online gaming.
 
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I'm really not interested in the pirate game angle. I'd love some homebrew to enable proper MKV playback and maybe NTFS\NAS functions. I'm fortunate to have 2 PS3's in my possession so having one console being used as a proper media centre albeit banned wouldn't fuss me.
 
msmalls74 said:
Thing is it will be stopped next FW when usb updates are removed and you have to do either on PSN or via a disk.
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That will not be a problem.

1 - Don't update.
2 - Any new update will be able to be ripped from a disc, decrypted (the keys are compromised remember) and a new CFW can be created based around the new FW, hence allowing new games to run.


deko said:
and even GeoHots Custom Firmware has loading backup games disabled.
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It's not 'disabled', it's just that it doesn't have the dodgy syscalls that the Jailbreak dongles provide. Enabling those syscalls via CFW would require messing with lv2, with serious brick potential. Anyway there are ways to run backups on Geohot's CFW, but obviously I won't go into details on here....
 
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K1LLSW1TCH said:
I haven't read the whole link yet but I don't agree with what you've said in the first few sentences. If you buy something like a PS3 for example and you agree to the terms Sony set then that should be it and you use it only in the way in which they mean for it to be used.
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I disagree, if I pay for an item it IS MINE i can do with it as i please.

I can mod, burn, paint alter what ever I please as long as I don't expect help, support, warranty from the supplier..

If I mod my PS3 to play hacked games the thing I should not be doing is downloading / copying the games, the PS3 modding is (or should be) not an issue...
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
I haven't read the whole link yet but I don't agree with what you've said in the first few sentences. If you buy something like a PS3 for example and you agree to the terms Sony set then that should be it and you use it only in the way in which they mean for it to be used.
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iv-tecman said:
This was bound to happen. Bascially, you buy a games console and you should expect to buy software for it and use it as supplied...

Can't help feel like wishing the best for Sony and hope they win, but guess they'll always be fighting this.. Someone will always say 'i can do whatever I damn well please' and mostly do...!! Fact of life sadly.
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No. Any terms you agree to would only be to play online, if they don't want people with modified consoles going onto their network because of the potential of hacking ruining the online gaming experience for other people, well then that's fair enough.

Otherwise, you bought it, it's yours.. why should someone tell you how to use it.. You'd be happy for someone to tell you what you can and can't do with something you own, really? lol.
 
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Like somebody else has said, you don't own the software, only the hardware and if you don't agree to the terms presented to you then you shouldn't use / return the product.
 
insane200 said:
tbh. i dont see why sony dont employ the hackers, if they broke the code they will know how to fixed it and make it even better.
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A lot of companies tried that in the early days and it didn't really work out. The hackers were only good at breaking things, not preventing them from being broken.
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
Like somebody else has said, you don't own the software, only the hardware and if you don't agree to the terms presented to you then you shouldn't use / return the product.
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I hate to be that analogy guy, but would you be saying the same thing if car manufacturers started doing the same thing?
 
iamtheoneneo said:
expect all new games to require firmware updates which they will have to attempt to break each time.
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The METLDR key is out in the wild. It doesn't matter that games require firmware updates when custom firmware can be signed with Sony's root key.

I'm not sure some people understand just how blown-wide-open the PS3's security is - Sony can't do anything that can't be countered due to the one-and-only root key being out in the wild. If they change the root key via a firmware update (which will need the current key to pass as signed), then the firmware update can be cracked open with the old root key and the new root key found.

The PS3 is beyond compromised, there isn't a single thing Sony can do apart from roll out brand new hardware with a different root key (and the security holes plugged to prevent it being cracked again), but this will cause massive compatability issues between new/old games/consoles.

I'm completely against the inevitable forthcoming wave of piracy, but I'm glad that homebrew is already on its way - all I want is wider media format support (eg MKV), a better/more configurable file organisation (eg folders for photos) and possibly a media frontend like XBMC.
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
How would that work though?
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If you bought a new Ford Fiesta, but it came with the terms that you can't swap out the radio, put in an air freshener, change the tyres, use a Tom-Tom, plug in an ipod conector, get a re-spray or upgrade the anti-theft device - would you happily agree to these terms?
 
Zid_ said:
I hate to be that analogy guy, but would you be saying the same thing if car manufacturers started doing the same thing?
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Yes. If you license (see hire, which is as close as your analogy gets to a logical comparison) a car then you don't modify it in any way.

Considering that you hire (see license) software. You agree to their terms. And so if you need to use Sony's software, then you agree to their rules.
 
More i think about it seems to be more of a scare/delay tactic so they can get something in place. Hacked PS3s will prob keep hacked but it wont be as easy for the GP to install CFW once USB updating has been changed/removed.
Still hoping that sony will brick every PS3 with CFW though, sure will be fun listening to the nerd rage when/if it happens. The car analagy fails as when you buy a car you dont sign an agreement not to tamper with its software, you do as soon as you sign upto PSN though.
 
uv said:
If you bought a new Ford Fiesta, but it came with the terms that you can't swap out the radio, put in an air freshener, change the tyres, use a Tom-Tom, plug in an ipod conector, get a re-spray or upgrade the anti-theft device - would you happily agree to these terms?
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No of course not but that's a bad analogy. The console does what it is meant to do, first and foremost it plays games and Blu-Ray Disks. Anything else is an extra and people who want it to do absolutely everything can't use that as justification for hacking and breaking the terms which Sony have set. It's not as if Sony have been unfair or that the console doesn't do anything whatsoever because it's been fine for the last 5 years.
 
msmalls74 said:
More i think about it seems to be more of a scare/delay tactic so they can get something in place. Hacked PS3s will prob keep hacked but it wont be as easy for the GP to install CFW once USB updating has been changed/removed.
Still hoping that sony will brick every PS3 with CFW though, sure will be fun listening to the nerd rage when/if it happens. The car analagy fails as when you buy a car you dont sign an agreement not to tamper with its software, you do as soon as you sign upto PSN though.
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Correct me if im wrong but isnt USB updating essential when changing a hard drive?

Every time i have changed my ps3 hdd i have always needed a USB stick with the latest firmware on it.

So i cant see them getting rid of that feature as changing the HDD is one of the selling points of the ps3 IMO - i would expect lawsuits against sony if they were to go through with it!!
 
Johnnytoxic said:
I hope Sony lose. I have the opinion of when you buy something, you are can mess with it in any way you want.

Sony will never stop this now, the next time someone breaks their system, just stay anonymous. Upload files from public locations etc. It's all about the fame game now though, can't blame them.

EDIT: Just a restraining order for now.
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Fair enough, do whatever you like to it (as you've said) but don't go announcing it and releasing it the public (lolol we haxored PS3, bow down to our virgin greatness).
 
uv said:
If you bought a new Ford Fiesta, but it came with the terms that you can't swap out the radio, put in an air freshener, change the tyres, use a Tom-Tom, plug in an ipod conector, get a re-spray or upgrade the anti-theft device - would you happily agree to these terms?
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If not, you wouldn't buy it.
 
K1LLSW1TCH said:
No of course not but that's a bad analogy. The console does what it is meant to do, first and foremost it plays games and Blu-Ray Disks. Anything else is an extra and people who want it to do absolutely everything can't use that as justification for hacking and breaking the terms which Sony have set. It's not as if Sony have been unfair or that the console doesn't do anything whatsoever because it's been fine for the last 5 years.
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Use vauxhall for the analogy life time warranty but it's only for the first 100,000 miles plus the car has to be serviced and inspected every 12 months at a main dealer or the warranty is void. You clearly agree to this just by purchasing the car. Just like sony you agree to use there software you don't own it.

It clearly states all this in the EULA that you accepted when you first played your console. Therefore if you break those EULA rules you should be fined/sued whatever !!!
 
bigjimmyauk said:
Use vauxhall for the analogy life time warranty but it's only for the first 100,000 miles plus the car has to be serviced and inspected every 12 months at a main dealer or the warranty is void. You clearly agree to this just by purchasing the car. Just like sony you agree to use there software you don't own it.

It clearly states all this in the EULA that you accepted when you first played your console. Therefore if you break those EULA rules you should be fined/sued whatever !!!
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In the main it sounds that simple, the issue for them is that an there are a whole host of 'rights' you have as a person/consumer that cannot be overwritten by an EULA..

That's where it always gets really complicated, and up to the courts/lawyers to really hammer it out..
 
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