Geolocation testing

unwashed potato! · 18 Apr 2008 at 15:12

JIM_BOB7813 said:
How can you even get that close?
From an IP address, you can not even get 1% certainty on someone's location (for ADSL/dial-up users, obviously excluding data centres/universities/ISPs). All you can do with any accuracy is narrow it down to country. Can someone explain how it's possible to get anything more than the location of the ISP?

can you explain how you'd find the country and to what accuracy it would be please.

JIM_BOB7813 · 19 Apr 2008 at 22:06

Mammalian said:
can you explain how you'd find the country and to what accuracy it would be please.

There's a list (can't remember where) of which IP blocks are assigned to which country/organisation (RIPE etc.)
From RIPE you can lookup which ISP/provider/individual it's registered to + country.

edit: found the list @ IANA
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space
But just querying RIPE is the easiest way.

edit2: actually, you may only be able to narrow down to global region, not country on some IPs

lookitsjonno · 19 Apr 2008 at 23:53

you can buy geo ip data for geo targetting, but that's about as close as you are going to get... you'll never get it 100%.

shine · 20 Apr 2008 at 08:12

Mammalian said:
can you explain how you'd find the country and to what accuracy it would be please.

Download the open source GeoLite County and City databases from MaxMind - there are API's for all the major languages and an Apache module if you want to do your targeting outside your application.

I'm currently putting a demo together for work and considering its free its pretty good.

furnace · 20 Apr 2008 at 11:05

NathanE said:
70% ? LOL... This thread has so far had 1 out of like 20... I know how all the theory works behind something like this and I can tell you right now that there is no cut and dried, reliable or even meaningful way to accurately geolocate an IP address. Yes you can geolocate to the ISP probably with 98% accuracy but to the actual customers city/town? That is more like 0-5%. With the ones that you can match always being due to the hostname containing some tell-tale information, like the cable exchange... or a university domain etc.

This is also why the police have to find out the ISP and then phone their abuse department to get the persons home address from that IP address...

It's not completely impossible to have a reasonably accurate database - singles adverts prove that. You can't claim the whole thing's impossible, and I'd certainly say you could be more accurate than 0-5% to, say, the nearest city.

MarcLister · 20 Apr 2008 at 12:11

Your IP: 146.87.52.xx
Your town/city: Manchester
Chance of being right (%): 98

Correct. Well I'm in Salford, next door. But I'll give you this as I'd rather say I lived in Manchester than confess to Salford.

gumbald · 20 Apr 2008 at 12:31

Seeing as there's only one ISP in Hull, you were bound to be right with me

NathanE · 20 Apr 2008 at 14:48

furnace said:
It's not completely impossible to have a reasonably accurate database - singles adverts prove that. You can't claim the whole thing's impossible, and I'd certainly say you could be more accurate than 0-5% to, say, the nearest city.

And which method will you use?

Single's adverts work by you telling the dating website where you live...

tsinc80697 · 20 Apr 2008 at 14:55

Your IP: 213.1.247.97
Your town/city: Liverpool
Chance of being right (%): 69

Its where Im from but not where I am right now! In Huddersfield

furnace · 20 Apr 2008 at 16:05

NathanE said:
And which method will you use?

Single's adverts work by you telling the dating website where you live...

I haven't told any singles websites where I live but the adverts for them always say "Singles near Worthing", and I've seen the same for a friend in Chichester. This is specifically for an adult dating site that advertises on many 'questionable' websites - you might know which one I mean

I don't know which method they use - I haven't written anything more specific than the country, which used IP2Location - but whatever method they use is clearly working.

K.C. Leblanc · 20 Apr 2008 at 16:11

Your IP: 86.141.x.x
Your town/city: Leeds
Chance of being right (%): 72

Nope, I'm in Gloucestershire

unwashed potato! · 20 Apr 2008 at 16:55

furnace said:
I don't know which method they use - I haven't written anything more specific than the country, which used IP2Location - but whatever method they use is clearly working.

afaik they will pay for the list of ip addresses locations from places like facebook who will have the location of your ip because you tell them when signing up. again this is just from hearing what other people have said on this forums but these lists are expensive to get which is why only sites that will make a load of money from adverts use them.

[edit]
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11360546&postcount=2

Peve · 20 Apr 2008 at 17:11

Mammalian said:
afaik they will pay for the list of ip addresses locations from places like facebook who will have the location of your ip because you tell them when signing up. again this is just from hearing what other people have said on this forums but these lists are expensive to get which is why only sites that will make a load of money from adverts use them.

[edit]
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11360546&postcount=2

This service seems very good:

http://www.maxmind.com/app/locate_ip

RandomTom · 20 Apr 2008 at 18:06

Your IP: 86.164.236.53
Your town/city: London
Chance of being right (%): 66

200 miles out, to my door pretty much; North Leeds.

GeForce · 20 Apr 2008 at 19:16

Your IP: 86.138.58.***
Your town/city: Huddersfield
Chance of being right (%): 96

Wrong. I'm in Epsom, about 15 miles southwest of London city centre.

Tican · 20 Apr 2008 at 19:49

Peve said:
This service seems very good:

http://www.maxmind.com/app/locate_ip

Yup, that worked for mine too

NathanE · 20 Apr 2008 at 19:56

Mammalian said:
afaik they will pay for the list of ip addresses locations from places like facebook who will have the location of your ip because you tell them when signing up. again this is just from hearing what other people have said on this forums but these lists are expensive to get which is why only sites that will make a load of money from adverts use them.

[edit]
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11360546&postcount=2

But 90% of the people that use Facebook, or hell even just the Internet, have dynamic IP addresses... so that rumour is total BS I'm afraid.

marc2003 · 20 Apr 2008 at 20:17

you're wasting your time asking consumer broadband customers for this sort of thing. the huge majority of people will have dynamic ip addresses. as soon as they disconnect, their old ip will be assigned to someone else at the other end of the country. so filling out questionnaires or surveys is pointless..... and even with a static ip, that really isn't much use either. i have one but it only goes back to where my isp is registered. incidentally, the checker in the OP places me in High Wycombe. my isp is based in Telford - which all these dating websites seem to pick up easily enough..... oh and i live in Cheltenham.

suarve · 20 Apr 2008 at 20:29

NathanE said:
There's no way to do this... WHOIS data will only show where the ISP is. Some ISPs like some cable providers used to put the exchange name in the hostnames but not sure if they still do.

Other than that... no way this can work.

Yes that would be right as I'm in the midlands but ISP is London and the app guessed London.