Poll: German Grand Prix 2018, Hockenheim - Race 11/21

Rate the 2018 German Grand Prix out of ten

  • Total voters
    140
  • Poll closed .
Malt_Vinegar said:
I am looking up rules to try and see what he would be penalised for? Firtly, was the session still in progress when he was pushing the car?
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Yes, it was.

Malt_Vinegar said:
Are drivers obliged to get to the first available exit point with a broken car?
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FIA rulebook said:
22.4 If a car stops on the track it shall be the duty of the marshals to remove it as quickly as possible so that its presence does not constitute a danger or hinder other competitors. Under no circumstances may a driver stop his car on the track without justifiable reason.
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He had the opportunity to get it off the track, his team were telling him over the radio to 'pull off NOW', he didn't.

***edit***

31.5 could be said to apply as well:

FIA rulebook said:
31.5 Any driver taking part in any practice session who, in the opinion of the stewards, stops
unnecessarily on the circuit or unnecessarily impedes another driver shall be subject to the
penalties referred to in Article 31.4.
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Since him doing what he did brought out the yellow flag in sectors 2 and 3 of the circuit.



I don't necessarily think he should be penalised, and I don't think he will be. But if he was, it certainly wouldn't be without merit.
 
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The session had ended, timer was at 0 when he was actually out of the car, and I did find that Alonso had no penalty for the same offence, and this was DURING a live session:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24...-to-pushing-his-car-in-hungary-after-stopping

The car stopped him on track, he was trying to drive it :D That rule is to stop people gaining an advantage by stopping a working car in a session on purpose.

We often see drivers trying to get a damaged car back to the pits.

Unless he was shown the Black and Orange flag he did not break any regulations.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
The session had ended, timer was at 0 when he was actually out of the car
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Which is all well and good, but when he stopped the car on-track the session was still live IIRC. He should have pulled it off the track while it was still rolling. Hell, he said himself over the radio when the engineer was yelling at him about potential PU damage that 'he needed to make it back' and the car was still 'trundling'. He then says that it won't go into neutral so the engineer tells him to switch off electrically. Which he still doesn't do. Eventually he's told to brake so the car goes into anti-stall then switch it off, which he does on-track. Having wombled around a good portion of the lap missing opportunities to stop it well away from the racing surface.

Forget the pushing the car, that's irrelevant. Stopping the car on the racing surface when you've had plenty of chances to get it off said racing surface is where he could have drawn a penalty.



***edit***

Those radio messages:


That'll probably get pulled by Liberty Media at some point, if it does I'll go hunt for a transcript or an official video.
 
Haha, you can hear him say "Car won't stop" "won't go into neutral"

He is trying to stop. I didn't even realise till you posted that. In which case he has nothing to answer at all!!

He is trying to grab neutral to slow the car and stop as per normal procedure.

Honestly there is nothing to answer at all after seeing that. It is clear there is no rule break at all.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Haha, you can hear him say "Car won't stop" "won't go into neutral"
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In which case he's supposed to switch power off and roll off the racing surface post-haste, no?

Anyway, it's not as if he's under investigation for anything. So this is merely going to be something that gets referred back to and starts a bunfight on here the next time someone stops on-track during qualifying and somehow takes a penalty for it because FIA/stewards consistency :p
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
I am looking up rules to try and see what he would be penalised for? Firtly, was the session still in progress when he was pushing the car?
Are drivers obliged to get to the first available exit point with a broken car? (I don't think so, as drivers often try to limp home)
Is pushing your car specifically banned?

Not found anything specific yet!

I think if he was black flagged whilst pushing the car, he would have to stop, but that was not the case.

Would it come under general safety rules for being on-track?


So, under these specific regulastions:
22.4 If a car stops on the track it shall be the duty of the marshals to remove it as quickly as possible so that its presence does not constitute a danger or hinder other competitors. Under no circumstances may a driver stop his car on the track without justifiable reason. If any mechanical assistance received during the race results in the car re-joining the stewards may disqualify him from the race (other than under Article 22.7(d). 22.5 A driver who abandons a car must leave it in neutral or with the clutch disengaged, with the ERS shut down and with the steering wheel in place. 2018 F1 Sporting Regulations 15/70 17 July 2018 ©2018 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile 22.6 Save as specifically authorised by the Code or these Sporting Regulations, no one except the driver may touch a stopped car unless

The only offence is that if he made it back to the pits with the marshalls pushing he would not have been allowed to rejoin, as he had outside assistance

Does not seem to be any other penalty for such an offence, as it was outside of his control. It also states earlier in the regulations that drivers are not punished for actions comitted by outside personnel (ie - marshals)

However, this rule does state:

22.11 If a driver has serious mechanical difficulties he must leave the track as soon as it is safe to do so

So, this looks like the regulation they will be enforcing, if there is anything to answer.


However, i just rewatched it, and I don't think there was anyone on a hot lap in that sector when it happened. Did Alonso get a penalty in Budapest when he pushed his car into the pits?
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The session was a green flag up until the moment he decided to get out and try and push the car back to the pit, bearing in mind he was so far away from the pit I'm surprised he thought he could get it back.

Subsequently he caused yellow flags and put himself and Marshals at a safety risk by doing what he did. He was told to stop the car and he had plenty of opportunities to turn off and pull over off the track without causing any of the above.

If F1 are going to take safety seriously then something like this can't go without any consequent action, but they are far from consistent no matter what they say and that's been evident for a while now.

Anyways hoping for an exciting race today, overtaking looks difficult but let's see!
 
SpartaK said:
The session was a green flag up until the moment he decided to get out and try and push the car back to the pit, bearing in mind he was so far away from the pit I'm surprised he thought he could get it back.
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If there's a gap in the wall between Agip Kurve and Sudkurve (to get onto the drag strip) then it's not really that far, but far too far to push it himself.

I don't mind him trying, it's his subsequent emotional break-down that worried me. That's not a man in control of his emotions. After Austria and Silverstone he wasn't in a good place, and clearly putting pen to paper on a new deal hasn't helped too much. It was only qualifying. Barring other issues to him others he should finish an easy 5th at worst later - not great compared to Vettel, but it was better happening in qualifying than in the race.

I think the more worrying issue is that that's now two hydraulic failures in three races for Mercedes.
 
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His emotions showed how much he's putting into it. I think it's nice actually.

If he just walked away without caring it would be worse. Lots of pressure on the team here. Home race, Ferrari leading the championships, looking strong here, Ham needing to pull back points, and now Vettel looks like he may win this one easily.
 
Another damage limitation weekend for Ham, may be struggling to get on the podium this time though. Could do with the weather throwing a wildcard in the mix.

Long way to go in the championship but the pendulum has swung very much in Ferraris favour and it's only the Hamilton factor giving Merc a chance. They need to turn it around somehow after the summer break.
 
this_is_gav said:
I don't mind him trying, it's his subsequent emotional break-down that worried me. That's not a man in control of his emotions. After Austria and Silverstone he wasn't in a good place, and clearly putting pen to paper on a new deal hasn't helped improve. It was only qualifying. Barring other issues to him others he should finish an easy 5th at worst later - not great compared to Vettel, but it was better happening in qualifying than in the race.
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Thing is, it's utterly typical of him. How many times have we heard him on the radio saying his tyres are gone/the car's broken/the strategy is all wrong? When in reality the tyres are fine, the car isn't hurt at all, and the strategy call was the best that the team could come up with thanks to the spectacular lack of real information coming from the cockpit?

Hell, the radio messages yesterday had him claiming suspension failure when the hydraulics started to give out. Is it any wonder McLaren started going backwards with feedback like that?? :p:D

Note for the Lewisterically humour-impaired on here - that second paragraph should be taken as gentle ribbing, not a bash! ;)
 
MooMoo444 said:
His emotions showed how much he's putting into it. I think it's nice actually.

If he just walked away without caring it would be worse. Lots of pressure on the team here. Home race, Ferrari leading the championships, looking strong here, Ham needing to pull back points, and now Vettel looks like he may win this one easily.
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I can only think of one instance of a driver like that though - Hakkinen at Monza in 1999.

Hamilton is an emotional character, but it just struck me as an odd time to show those emotions.

I've felt Vettel has struggled to keep his emotions in check since he joined Ferrari (perhaps he feels there's extra pressure on him at Maranello?) but it's not something Hamilton's shown the outside world in this way before. We've seen him upset, but it usually comes across as grumpiness rather than what he showed yesterday.
 
Clouds over the circuit look pretty dark but I don't see the rain coming.
 
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