Get a good job without uni?

benjo said:
I'm sure he wont mind me saying, but my friend on the same college course as me got a job at the college after finishing his BTEC two years ago, he's now quite high up in the server management part and he's on £28k a year. He's only 19 :)
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I'm doing the same BTEC course at the moment (in the first year).

i didnt think going to uni was worth the money and missing out on 3-4 years job experience and salary. i'm quite looking forward to getting out into the real world and start earning money and not going to uni lets me do this much earlier.
 
Well I've just finished my first year at Uni and I'm not going back. The course wasnt for me, and I didn't really enjoy it. I could have moved to a different course but that'd mean being at uni for another 4 years which I really didnt want to do.

I'm working part time now and I'm going to study with the open university at home until I emigrate to New Zealand next year with my parents :)
 
I work at a job which doesnt require a degree and at the point of me starting there last December, I was getting paid less than people younger than me that have been with the company for years. However, there is an unexplainable factor that sometimes gives graduates an edge over non-graduates, regardless of the subject studied (more scientific approach to the work, better developed maths skills or maybe something else), which sort of gets me fast-tracked upwards in the hierarchy and my area manager has even spoken to me about the possibility of going for certain well-paid corporate positions in the short to medium term future, once I gather some more "front line" experience.

My point being is that degrees can be silly and chances are that what people study as a subject may not materialise in working in the same field but that doesnt mean that they dont generally improve a persons work ethic.
 
I can't speak for other career paths, and this certainly won't apply to things like the sciences, finance, medicine or humanities, but it's certainly true of the IT industry in my experience.

For most of my professional career my job roles have been listed as requiring a graduate. One look at my experience on my CV and my not having a degree has never even been raised as a question, let alone an issue.

That includes a job as a senior developer at a university, where you would expect them to place great store in academic qualifications.

Experiance counts for so much more than a degree in the IT industry that it would be insane to spend 4 years at university instead of going to work and learning things you will actually use, especially when you consider that most people coming out of University have a lot of debt compared to people who has been working for 4 years.
 
Morba said:
i think i read recently that having a degree will earn someone around £150k more over the term of working life than someone who started working in the same role instead of going to uni.

£150k over a working life isnt really that much when you are talking about jobs that aren't low level service industry
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Its a lot higher than 150K over a life time. The Average (mean) I have read was over £1 million. Of course, the mean is distorted with some people earning very large salaries.
Put it this way, over a 45 year career earning on average about 11K more than someone without a degree will earn an additional 0.5 million. 11k difference is large when just graduating, but later in life would be very small and I fully expect someone with a reasonable degree to be able to earn 15-50K more a year than someone without.


A degree is a long term investment. If you do a half arsed degree at an ex-polytechnic then yes, you will loose out. A top degree from a top uni getting a top grade will ensure large economic gains for the hard working.
 
HangTime said:
I work in Quality Assurance and have a degree in Economics & Maths. From what I can tell my degree has never been a deciding (or even significantly influencing) factor in me getting a job - although that's not to say that it isn't for others.

I guess for non-graduates there is probably a ceiling in some professions in terms of not being able to land a senior management role easily but it will usually be at a reasonably high level anyway (certainly well over £50k/pa at least). Up until that point experience, networking and charisma can drive them forwards.
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I think this is the important point. Up until a certain level a degree may or may not help. It may help you get a job in the first place (graduate scheme etc). However, you should be able to do fine without a degree. But after so many promotions, without a degree your options will be limited.

Plus there are things you just cannot put in financial terms. The experiences gained at university are very valuable. Be that playing sports, traveling, socializing, extra curricular courses, extern knowledge, growing up away form home, moving to different cities/countries, meeting people from all over the world, probably the bets possible time in your life to meet your lifelong partner.
 
How do you personally define well paid? From the position of earning £10k a year, £20k may look very enticing but is that how you'd define well paid or is it going to be sufficient for you after a while? It tends to be that your lifestyle costs will expand to meet the available income - something about nature abhoring a vacuum perhaps (with my apologies to Aristotle for the misuse of the quote attributed to him).

Having a degree doesn't guarantee you a job and outside of a few select professions/industries it isn't necessary - it might start you a bit higher up the career ladder but that isn't to say that you couldn't have reached the same position (or higher) simply by working your way up in the same sort of time although as pointed out you may or may not hit a 'ceiling' sooner without a degree. If you know what you want to do with your life then go for it now and devote time and energy to achieving it but I didn't know at 18 what I wanted to do, several years later and I'm still not sure what I eventually want to do so I simply try my hardest at every opportunity that comes my way and enjoy it as much as possible. If you don't know what you want to do then there are worse places to spend your time than university but don't think that it will necessarily appreciably improve your chances of getting a job in a specific field - it usually doesn't hurt but it might not help either.
 
Sash said:
Alan Sugar didnt go to Uni and hes a multi millionaire :)
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And Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard while he is a multi-billionnaire and has been at various points the richest man on the planet.

That doesn't necessarily imply that you'd also be wise to drop out or not go to university in the first place, these men are exceptions who quite possibly would have made it regardless. However the point that university isn't for everyone is a perfectly valid one.
 
You might want to look at this from a slightly different angle...

Im now in my third year at the University of York studying politics. When I came to uni I didnt know exactly what i wanted to do but knew it would be something political, lobbying, policy etc... however 3 years studying and ive decided it's exactly what I dont want to do, and im now planning to do a social work masters after I graduate.

So Uni was pointless?

No it wasnt! For starters it steered me away from something id been positive about doing all through 6th form but which I hadn't known sufficiently about to make the right decision.

Secondly the friends I've met here will stay with me forever, meeting people at work cannot compare to living with people in halls 24/7!

The fun, yes yes everyone says students just doss off for three years and just get drunk. It is a part of it but when else are you going to do that if not at uni? Further than this there are literally hundreds of societies and clubs to join which dont involve getting drunk. Always wanted to skydive/scuba dive/act/play lacrosse/volunteer? You can do it through university and its miles cheaper than in the 'real world' and you can do it with like minded people who are in the exact same position/experience as you.

Finally theres the pure life experience factor. Moving away from home is something everyone should do eventually. I can't emphasise enough the amount people grow up at uni and how beneficial it is for them. Of course there are other ways and thousands of people manage fine without slumming it in halls for a year but it can be an excellent kick start with everyone at the same level all brought together for the same thing!

I could go on, but I just wanted to say its not all about the money. Uni has so much more to offer than just 'getting a degree' and this should certainly factor into any decision you make.
 
Some jobs require degrees/diplomas, i.e. law, medicine, architecture etc... However for general "jobs" per say no you don't. I think uni does help people develop and gets them out from the mollycoddling of the home life for a lot of people. Some people are just more "go getters" than others and just have the ability of achieving lots without a degree. Some degrees are a good pathway to the career of choice, i.e. engineering and other specialised types of work. To me a degree is a sign that someone can be committed and work by him/herself. I don't think however it makes you more or less intelligent or makes you more or less superior. However masters/phds to me do show a slightly more studious side and a more academic side that I do find impressive - but maybe that's because I know how much work is involved.

Also uni helps develop a social network, and gets you involved in things you wouldnt' have done other wise. I ended up starting and running a skydiving club at uni - I never imagined I'd do something like that, and then went on to become a skydiving instructor. As a result I saw the world, did some amazing things and never really looked back. I doubt I'd have done that without uni. That's just one example, but I do think it offers opportunity to those that are willing to exploit them.

You can achieve big things without degrees, as with all things in life if you want to get it you have to be ready to work hard for it.
 
I work in IT/Finance and recruit people into various teams I manage and have to say that having a degree doesn't give a candidate an advantage, frankly I am more interested in the type of person they are i.e. willingness to learn, work hard and an ability to show initiative and think outside of the box... a degree can help to demonstrate this but so can previous work experience or how well a candidate puts themselves forward in an interview.

Although I do have a degree I would imagine that its pretty much a 50/50 split over the 50 or so staff under my control to those that do and those that don't, career progression is based on performance, hard work and a willingness to go the extra mile not on pieces of paper
 
salami1212 said:
Hi, im just wondering, what type of jobs are there available if you dont go to university? As I swear you need a degree to get a well paid job.. cheers
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Real Estate.
Mine Work/Oil Rigs.


I dont know what you class as a good job though.

They are well paid Jobs but more then likely(Especially the mining jobs) they will be **** jobs
 
There are some careers where a degree will be mandatory: law, medicine, most engineering. If you want to get into these areas a good degree from a good university will definately boost your career.

However from my experience and that of others I know, experience is worth far far more than a degree. I have just turned 29, started my career (business design, consultancy) at 21 at the bottom of the ladder, worked up to senior analyst by 25 and have been a freelance contractor for the last 3 years. My academic qualifications are never looked at as my experience and knowledge is far more valuable.

The other part to look at with degrees is that far too many people have them. They used to be something unique and special, these days they are relatively easy to obtain but helishly expensive.

For me the options are:

1) Start early, get three/four yours experience ahead of your peers and possibly start on a lower wage.

2) Get a degree, start with little useful experience, possibly start on a higher wage, but be saddled with thousands of pounds worth of debt.
 
Lil old me said:
Secondly the friends I've met here will stay with me forever, meeting people at work cannot compare to living with people in halls 24/7!
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In part, I wholeheartedly agree with your post - however, the whole mates for life thing will soon fade. I finished Uni a year ago and now everyone has moved around the country hardly anyone has chance to speak and even facebook is a rarity. Everyone says halls mates are for life. Sure, in the sense one day you may speak to them again...

My degree hasn't been too useful; as of yet. I was bored of the subject (neuroscience) and I had a job lined up working in something totally different before I finished my degree. I suppose 'maybe' the director took my degree into account ie. critical thinking, but he wasn't too fussed.

I earn a lot more in this job than I would if I'd specialised in research - in that respect the degree was a hinderence to me...
 
I never went to University, I've studied through the OU for the last four years. I've also been picking up my IT certs along the way, I'll be graduating next year.

I'm also in full time employment with the local council as an IT officer, I don't know what you would class as good pay in england but I'm on £21,000 PA. So to cut a long story short I don't think university is a necessity.
 
You have to remember that good universities are not in the business of making people employable - that's almost irrelevant for most courses. They're places for research and high level academic study. The undergraduate body only really exists to feed the university with good postgraduates capable of research.

That said, many degrees happen to be both academic and vocational in nature: medicine, dentistry, engineering etc, especially if the job requires a degree as a starting point. And of course employers look at a degree favourably when taking someone on.

But there are still plenty of jobs available for those who don't go to university.
 
I think University is great for the following: it allows you to grow up a lot (I certainly didn't know everything at 18), build confidence, hopefully improve intellect and open a few more doors to you in the job market, as well as making friends.
 
If you are purely motivated by money then you should NOT go to university.

You should go to university to further your knowledge in a field which interests you, NOT to try and get a fast-track to a good salary.

It's strange that going to university has changed its meaning over the past 10 years or so. It used to be (when I went) that if one had a specific academic or vocational interest, to take it further than A-Levels, one had to go to a university or a polytechnic. Now it seems that people are studying *anything* because they feel that they'll get some sort of automatic entitlement to an uber salary.

If you're motivated and smart and work hard you'll succeed with OR without a degree. The oft-cited examples of Sir Alan and Sir Bill of Gates are NOT to be used as an example of "people without a degree doing well", they are examples of extremely driven and hard-working individuals who would have succeeded REGARDLESS of their academic qualifications.

So, apart from some specialised areas, and also some companies - for some positions - have a "degree only" stipulation (mainly city+finance from what I have experienced), you're free to apply for whatever job you want.

:)
 
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