"Getting the back end out"

EvilDreams

EvilDreams

EvilDreams

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6 Jul 2008
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1,841
Hi.

I am now on my 5th RWD car, and I have had a few fun RWD moments over the years including power slides through snowy car parks (then getting stuck), a few tyre-smoking, wheel spinning type moments and a few occasions where the back wobbled a little, but for the life of me I still don't know how to "get the back end out" when I want to. I have tried driving like an idiot round roundabouts in the wet but the most I can get is a wobble which is easily corrected.

With my previous cars, I just decided not to bother because they were all autos.

Right now I have a 1.8 MK1 MX5, everyone says how easy it is to get the back out in these cars and how easy it is to control but I can't even do that in the wet.

So, what's the usual technique for doing this on purpose short of the "scandinavian flick"? High revs, low gear and tight turns? Bear in mind I am a complete noob. Take me through it, if you will.

TIA
 
It could simply be that your tyres are too grippy - I struggled to make the MR2 kick out when i had the 1.8 in there, but after i had a transplant carried out, i have to feather the throttle to keep it in line at times! Although naturally if you're struggling to do it off roundabouts in the wet, then chances are you're simply not brave nough to put your foot down early enough :D
 
Sin_Chase said:
Euhm.

Getting the back end out can be fun and all but it's not something you generally WANT to do, not on public roads anyway.
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I'm not talking rush hour here, obviously I'm not going to go driving around like a moron when there are other people using the road. I know a few areas that are privatish and completely dead at night, which contain roundabouts and car parks I can mess around in. I know of many back roads between nowhere and nothing that are similarly deserted in favour of the dual carriageway....also I don't particularly want to end up in a hedge, I would just like to know how to do it....if I felt like it.

What I am basically interested in is the actual technique.
 
I would've thought tha main factors in making the rear kick out is either:
A) Making the wheels spin through added power (puttin gyour foot down)
B) Suddenly transferring weight from one end of the car to the other (either by accelerating, or lifting off/braking)

If you've already tried these, all I can suggest is that you're not trying hard enough :)
 
there are a couple of different ways of doing it ON A TRACK - don't do it on the road its just silly :)

the best i found for the mx5 (mk2 admitting) is using "clutch kick" - effectivly you start cornering quickly, clutch in and quickly pop it back up. This will unsettle the rear wheel and start the slide, you can add some more accelerator to increase the effect.

Other options are power endued over steer which the stock mx5 struggles with, you can also feight to the wrong side then turn in rapidly to increase the effect of power on oversteer but your probably still going to struggle in the dry. Weight shifting from the rear can be done by breaking quickly mid turn in or even the dreaded handbrake but really the clutch kick is the best (although its not exactly mechanically sympathetic)
 
I find its fairly easy to initiate a slide, but then I imagine my 2.6 straight 6 may have a fair bit more torque than the mx5.

Just approach said corner, go straighter and deeper than you normally would gently on the throttle, turn in sharply off throttle, and then sharply press the accelerator while turning. The front is already gripping and turning in, and the back will begin to slide round. Apply a dab of oppo, and either continue with the throttle or back off gently, while straightening the lock.

Its much easier to start trying to do it in the wet. Things happen a lot more progressively and at a slower speed. In the dry its fairly different.

This is a great video, might not really apply to the mx5, but some beautiful car control notnethelsess

 
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As for the Scandinavian flick, its a rally suited manoeuvre as you get the car sideways before the corner and "slingshotting" it around near 90 degree bend for maximum exit speed. You would not really use it on the road at all.

You do not want to be going sideways around any corner you cannot see around :D
 
Back end of my S went squirmy when pulling out a V style junction the other day, was quite fun, but no, generally public roads for powersliding? too much to hit.
 
Howard said:
:thumbsup:

Works for me on roundabouts in the wet and I've got Eagle F1s. Probably best keeping to huge deserted carparks or fields if you don't know how, though!
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Booting it is all fine if your car wieghs as much as a size 8 shoe or has oodles of bhpssss and torquessss:p

When it weighs 1360KG like mine and doesn't give enough torque until higher revs you have to hand hold it a bit like steer in deeper and faster when cornering then when the rear moves out counter the wheel just as fast but not as deep to mini slide for a moment :eek:

I've only tried it a few times as I started this new job a while back, the country crossroads here are almost perfect for it!
 
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mrk said:
When it weighs 1360KG like mine and doesn't give enough torque until higher revs you have to hand hold it a bit like steer in deeper and faster when cornering then when the rear moves out counter the wheel just as fast but not as deep to mini slide for a moment :eek:
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The reason its hard in yours is because it's massively overtyred (Most BMW's are) really, although the lack of power doesn't help.
 
[TW]Fox;15302487 said:
The reason its hard in yours is because it's massively overtyred (Most BMW's are) really, although the lack of power doesn't help.
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Thats a good point, I'm using 195 section tyres. So its no surprise its fairly lively. And the fact they are crap tyres as well.
 
With RWD it's all about (well, easiest with) pendulum effect and too much power.

For a power slide right in RWD car ..

Firstly turn left slightly at 4500rpm but not floored -- at static speed but at an area of revs where you can get a lot of torque quickly..

Then swing quite hard right and apply lots and lots of power (up to 6500 rpm). Your reaction now if you're not sure about what you're doing is to think 'WHOA THIS FEELS WRONG' and madly steer left -- undergo a bit of 'fishtailing' as you lose all control, and smash into an oncoming Ford Mondeo, killing the driver and 3 kids .. If you know what you're doing, keep steering slightly right even though it feels 'wierd' ..

Hey presto, your back end is trying to overtake the car!

Now, after 1 second into the powerslide ..

Naturally once the back end is sliding you don't want to continue turning to the right or you'll end up doing a 180, stalling the car, and facing the other way on the road (!). Either turn left gently on wheel to level it up and stop your slide -- steer straight on or mildly right (or slightly left if your going fast .. say above 30mph) to continue the power-slide, or turn left hard to leave the left of the road, smash into a brick wall and spend the rest of your life in a wheelchair.


The subtle hints throughout this post basically revolve around the fact its NOT the slide that kills you, its always the over-correction afterwards. Really, really gentle back left when you want the slide to stop. And prepare for the 'lurch' back into a straight line as the rear tyres find grip .. when the car 'bangs' into 4-wheels having traction -- you will think it's swinging left and be tempted to turn right AGAIN to correct what you think is an over-correction because the car 'banged' back.

If you do this -- it's a classic, classic case of fishtailing - the biggest risk for the noob powerslider. You'll over-correct, over-correct, and over-correct again right the way into the wall .. and you'll be panicking so much you won't even be thinking about what you sensibly need to do to get out of the mess you're in until BANG!
 
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