Gibraltar

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Gibraltar
Just wondering, what does the average UK citizen know about Gibraltar?

We are going through a bad patch here politically. Gibraltar is technically a colony of the UK, which Spain claims as its own. The Spanish government is relentless in its strategies to make our lives difficult. Their latest move is to say that we have no territorial waters, and actively allow their fishermen to ignore our fishing laws, even providing them with police escorts.

During the Jubilee celebrations we had a Royal visit, and even that caused diplomatic tension because their mere presence here offended the Spanish government, to the point that their Queen snubbed our Queen at a reception she held for a number of monarchies.

While in the past, the UK has backed Gibraltar 100% in its practically unanimous wish to remain British, little by little, the feeling here is that it is becoming little more than lip service from politicians. The fishermen and the spanish police are in our waters on a daily basis, doing as they please, in full view of the UK military and the local authorities.

Blair and Straw actually tried to reach a deal with Spain to share sovereignty, all behind our backs. Gibraltar rejected it in a referendum as soon as this deal became public and it eventually came to nothing.

The UN's position is that all territories should be decolonised, however what I feel they fail to understand is that after 308 years, if absorbed by Spain we would not be decolonised, we would be re-colonised.

We are British citizens and happily so, even if our accents and bilingualism (in English and Spanish) are not typically British, but hey, mainland UK itself is equally diverse these days. We have our own identity as a people, not Spanish, not English, not Welsh, simply British Citizens from Gibraltar. We do GCSEs , A-levels, and get our degrees at UK Universities. We

Full integration with the UK was explored in the past and defeated for reasons I am not too informed about, but probably revolved around economic reasons. i.e. being just another UK town works if you are geographically close to the many services you can share, but would be economically crippling if you are far away. Back then we relied heavily on the military to sustain us, but slowly the military base has shrunk and we have become economically self sufficient thanks to tourism, a finance centre, being a hub for internet-based businesses like online gaming, private banking, etc.

So, how do you feel about us as UK Citizens? Are we a thorn on the UK's side that gets in the way of better relations with Spain? Are we worth 'keeping'? Should Spain be confronted in stronger terms by the UK Government? No opinion? Didn't even know we existed?
 
Hey Morpheus. Welcome to OCuk!

Yeah, from the number of replies you can guess the level of interest in our little homeland back in mainland UK :/
 
Personally, I think it should be up to the citizens who are living there now. If you have an affiliation to the UK, that's great but it's really your country and your land now and you should decide what you want to do there. Whether it was part of one country or another some time in the past is irrelevant in my view as borders change all the time throughout history and it makes no sense to switch rulership because one time in the past you used to have dominion of a piece of land. I say let you live as you please.
 
Indeed.

The problem right now is even though we are British Citizens, and we wish to remain so, the Spanish government does not accept this and the UK government doesn't support/defend us the way it should and would if we were in mainland UK.
 
Gib is very important geographically to the UK for obvious reasons, I don't think any sane UK government would want to lose it.

I've been several times, its a cool place, the Rock is amazing, Le Línea the Spanish town next to it is however a complete dump. No doubt they blame Gib & the UK for that though.
 
Yeah, I agree if that's what you want we should support you. Unfortunately when it gets into the hands of politicians words are often not backed up by actions. In this case it seems there is a bully and a friend who's too scared to intervene for sake of saving face and you are the people stuck in the middle. I know what I would do if were in a position of power but all I can suggest is you need to lobby your local leaders and get them to put pressure on UK government to offer you more support and get some media attention on this.
 
Always a sticky situation with places like this - I think it needs to be enshrined in UN law that it comes down to a vote of the local populance and the UN should do its job and protect the rights of the citizens.
 
La Linea is a town that's been historically neglected by its own government, with something like 40 or 50 % unemployment. Gibraltar actually employs over 5000 of them, and there is a lot of history between both towns, a lot of positive ties, even family ties when people from either side of the border have married.

The problem is your typical politician in Madrid does not care. Franco closed the border, making thousands of Spaniards lose their jobs here overnight, even now, when their government creates massive border queues by checking each vehicle one by one, the main victims are those Spanish workers who need to get back home.
 
Always a sticky situation with places like this - I think it needs to be enshrined in UN law that it comes down to a vote of the local populance and the UN should do its job and protect the rights of the citizens.

Unfortunately the UN is not helping.

They want all territories decolonised. That includes Gibraltar. But after 308 years, if Gibraltar were to become Spanish it would be against the wishes of the population, and as Morpheus says it would pretty much mean recolonisation, not decolonisation. We've been British since before the USA existed!
 
perhaps you would have more power and say so if you were to become a sovereign nation but maintain alliances with the UK. Just a thought I don't know if it would be practical or not.
 
I thought the UN supported the right to self determination?

The UK can't hand back Gib without making its position over the Falklands very tenuous.
 
Unfortunately the UN is not helping.

They want all territories decolonised. That includes Gibraltar. But after 308 years, if Gibraltar were to become Spanish it would be against the wishes of the population, and as Morpheus says it would pretty much mean recolonisation, not decolonisation. We've been British since before the USA existed!

Yeah I realise thats the reality but its what the UN _should_ be doing if they did their **** job!
 
I'm interested in the specifics of the pressure the Spanish are putting on the Gibraltarians - can someone eleborate?

How big a problem is it if the fisherman fish in Gibralters waters? is there anything else they are doing? afterall incursions are one thing but if they choose to close their borders, well, unfortunately, that is their prerogative.
 
I wouldn't worry about British Politicians paying it lip service, they do this to appease the Spanish.

As has been stated Gibralter has far too much milataristic importance for the UK gov to give it up.

The UK Gov just cannot be seen giving their support too publically in the modern world.

Also the yanks wouldn't let us give it up is a very important stop off point for the aircraft carriers and they prefer to deal with us rather than those pesky hispanics!
 
Gibraltar is part of the UK and should stay that way until the citizens there decide otherwise. Same as the Falklands frankly. Politicians give everything lip service but in truth I doubt they'd dare give away territory, especially when it's full of loyal UK citizens.
 
I'm interested in the specifics of the pressure the Spanish are putting on the Gibraltarians - can someone eleborate?

How big a problem is it if the fisherman fish in Gibralters waters? is there anything else they are doing? afterall incursions are one thing but if they choose to close their borders, well, unfortunately, that is their prerogative.

  • Border queues (take your pick between 30 minutes & 4 hours, jams up traffic locally)
  • Raking of British Territorial waters.
  • Non-recognition of said waters
  • Flagrant disregard of warnings made by RN and local Police
  • Constant campaign in Media (especially on the financial front, on which they have little to nothing to go on)
  • Constant objections to Gibraltarians entering sporting events, including FIFA membership to name one)
  • Accusations of being a drug entry point into Europe (lol, 3 square miles of coastline, 1 exit border into spain, versus 1000's of miles of coastline across the border...)
  • Non-recognition of our Government. (Which does everything except defense nowadays)
  • Non acceptance of countless referendums repeating our wishes (99.6% last time iirc) to remain british.
Could go on for ages...im not even hitting the emotional side of things here.
 
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