Giggsy, one of the greatest ??

Loki · 1 Mar 2007 at 12:38

Ok first up I make no apologies for being a Utd fan and asking this question. However if Giggsy plays on Saturday against Liverpool he will have notched up 700 games for one club and the best part of fifteen years playing in the top flight.. At the moment he is having one of his better seasons being used in just the right ammount of games to have an impact.

It's pretty easy to get carried away with the word Genius or the next Georgie Best but when ex pro's say it then there must be something about the lad. Always stays out of the limelight and is a model pro in the ammount of training he does and the work he does away from football

Born: 29/11/73
Clubs: Man Utd
Debut: 2 Mar, 1991 v Everton
Appearances: 699
Goals: 140
Premiership titles: 8
FA Cups: 4
Champions League: 1
League Cups: 2
Intercontinental Cup: 1
Wales caps: 54
Wales caps: 9

Plus numerous young player/player of the month/year awards.

It makes me laugh when you hear the press going on about players like Lampard and Gerrard being true greats of the game. Exceptionally good players in their own right but I can't see either of them getting near Giggsy's trophy haul, more so with Lamps

Although his international career has been limited due to the fact he doesn't play for one of the big International teams, I don't think he would have been unwelcome company mixing with players like Zidane, Maradonna et al.

Thoughts ?

Gilly · 1 Mar 2007 at 12:55

Loki said:
It makes me laugh when you hear the press going on about players like Lampard and Gerrard being true greats of the game. Exceptionally good players in their own right but I can't see either of them getting near Giggsy's trophy haul, more so with Lamps

You think it less likely that Lamps will get to his trophy haul? :/

Loki said:
Although his international career has been limited due to the fact he doesn't play for one of the big International teams

...and has called in sick 6 or 7 times out of ten.

Loki said:
Thoughts ?

Its not a completely daft suggestion but some of your other comments are pretty daft.

The problem is the true greats of the game (Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Platini, Di Stefano, etc) did the biz on the big stage. Either carrying below par teams through games like Eusebio or being the big fish in a big pond like Pele. Giggs has never had the impact he should have for Wales, which is detrimental o the way he'll be remembered.

Steedie · 1 Mar 2007 at 12:57

I dont think anyone can argue against that Giggs is one of the Premierships all time greats, and a true world class player.

His loyalty is amazing too, it seems a couple of years at a club these days is the max for most players, but for him to spend 15 years at Old Trafford is amazing.

Some of the best goals I've ever seen have been scored by Giggs, the one against Man City about 10 years ago that people compared to George Bests goal, they were both very similar. Then who can forget the goal in the FA cup against Arsenal, just for the timing of it, as well as the pure skill involved, it was just an incredible goal

It will be a real shame when he has to retire, but hes definatley a Man Utd legend, as well as a Premiership legend. I'd argue the case for one of Europes greatest ever too

abruzz1 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:00

Yeah, most definitely. I think the word 'great' gets thrown around too easily these days, apparently you can be a great by having a good season or scoring a vital goal. But imo Giggs is one of the greatest players to have played for us and in the Premiership. He is both a model professional on and off the pitch and a role model for younger players. I look back at the young players that started around the time Giggs debuted, and where are they now? As much as it pains me to say it because I adored the bloke as a kid, but Lee Sharpe ****ed his career away, I'd even bring Robbie Fowler into the equation, he was absolutely lethal at Liverpool, and what is he doing now, he's a fringe player getting a few games a season.

You hear stories over the years about young players not being able to handle the spotlight, so they drink and start taking drugs. Giggs was lucky enough to have Ferguson to look after him. I'd also mention Scholes in this. How often have you seen either of them in the papers for the wrong reasons?

It's a misfortune that along with George Best, Giggs was born in a small country. This isn't a pop at Wales or anything, I'm from N.Ireland myself, and it pains me to think of what they could have both achieved at International level if they were from a bigger country and had better opportunities at playing in the World Cup or European Championships.

abruzz1 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:06

Gilly said:
The problem is the true greats of the game (Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Platini, Di Stefano, etc) did the biz on the big stage. Either carrying below par teams through games like Eusebio or being the big fish in a big pond like Pele. Giggs has never had the impact he should have for Wales, which is detrimental o the way he'll be remembered.

What did Di Stefano do on the big stage?

BaZ87 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:10

Gilly said:
The problem is the true greats of the game (Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Platini, Di Stefano, etc) did the biz on the big stage. Either carrying below par teams through games like Eusebio or being the big fish in a big pond like Pele. Giggs has never had the impact he should have for Wales, which is detrimental o the way he'll be remembered.

Have to agree. No doubt he will be remembered as one of Utd's and the Prems greats but he hasn't done anything special on the big stage to be remembered like the players mentioned above.
I would put him in the same category as the likes of John Barnes; will get remembered as one of the greats of his generation in this coutry but will only be known outside by keen football fans. And i would take Barnes ahead of Giggs (obviously) because Barnes' end product was far better.

Gilly · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:12

abruzz1 said:
What did Di Stefano do on the big stage?

When he was finally cleared to play for Spain he broke a goalscoring record not bested until 1990.

Loki · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:12

Gilly said:
You think it less likely that Lamps will get to his trophy haul? :/

Thanks for the Grammar correction
and I don't think Lampard will acheive what Giggs has in the game.

Gilly said:
...and has called in sick 6 or 7 times out of ten.

agred but in most cases it was for meaningless friendlies

Gilly said:
Its not a completely daft suggestion but some of your other comments are pretty daft.

My question was about Giggs being classed as a Great Player. Most of what I have said is factual in the respect of what hes won and what ex pros have said about him So whats daft ?

Gilly said:
The problem is the true greats of the game (Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Platini, Di Stefano, etc) did the biz on the big stage. Either carrying below par teams through games like Eusebio or being the big fish in a big pond like Pele. Giggs has never had the impact he should have for Wales, which is detrimental o the way he'll be remembered.

Im not a big fan of International Football but whenever I have watched highlights, Wales have always looked better for him in the side and regardless of the opposition. With the greatest respect to Wales, a Below par Welsh side is completely different to a below par Brazilian, Portugese, Argentinian or French. In most cases the players you mention and the international sides they play in were underperforming. Imho Giggs can only perform so much at International level due to the other players he has in his side. Thats has nothing to do with his ability

abruzz1 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:15

Gilly said:
When he was finally cleared to play for Spain he broke a goalscoring record not bested until 1990.

But like George Best and Giggs he never played in the World Cup. His goalscoring record was incredible though but he did nothing on the big stage really.

BaZ87 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:16

Gilly said:
When he was finally cleared to play for Spain he broke a goalscoring record not bested until 1990.

And the 5 European Cups and the 14 Championships across 3 countries.

Gilly · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:18

Loki said:
Thanks for the Grammar correction
and I don't think Lampard will acheive what Giggs has in the game.

I wasn't correcting anything, I just don't see how you think Lamps will win less silverware than Gerrard.

I think Lamps will surpass Giggs, but that wasn't the point

Loki said:
My question was about Giggs being classed as a Great Player. Most of what I have said is factual in the respect of what hes won and what ex pros have said about him So whats daft ?

Whats daft is the word genius. Whats daft is the fact that he hasn't done it on the world stage. Whats daft is saying you don't think Gerrard or Lampard will get anywhere near the trophies Giggs has. They've got a lot of years on him.

Loki said:
Im not a big fan of International Football but whenever I have watched highlights, Wales have always looked better for him in the side and regardless of the opposition. With the greatest respect to Wales, a Below par Welsh side is completely different to a below par Brazilian, Portugese, Argentinian or French. In most cases the players you mention and the international sides they play in were underperforming. Imho Giggs can only perform so much at International level due to the other players he has in his side. Thats has nothing to do with his ability

Of course it has to do with his ability. Maradona broke records all over the shop at club level and IIRC that was for under-par club sides. Also, IIANM, Portugal were woefully inept until Eusebio.

Rosbif · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:26

One of the best English players ever.

abruzz1 · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:26

Rosbif said:
One of the best English players ever.

Hlebio · 1 Mar 2007 at 13:54

Not quite up there with Zidane and Ronaldo but certainly up there. A tremendous player, and a credit to the game whatever anyone thinks.

Chong Warrior · 1 Mar 2007 at 14:19

Steedie said:
His loyalty is amazing too, it seems a couple of years at a club these days is the max for most players, but for him to spend 15 years at Old Trafford is amazing.

Yeah absolutely amazing loyalty to want to stay at the biggest club during it's most succesfull period ever.... please!

abruzz1 · 1 Mar 2007 at 14:22

Chong Warrior said:
Yeah absolutely amazing loyalty to want to stay at the biggest club during it's most succesfull period ever.... please!

Yeah but Giggs wasn't to know that we'd be successful for the next 10yrs. Unless he's got a magic ball or something.

As far as I know, there was a lot of interest from Italy for him in the early to mid 90's. But he chose to stay at the club that helped him progress as a player and gave him his first chance. Just like many other footballers around the country who have remained loyal to their clubs whether success was there or not.

Steedie · 1 Mar 2007 at 15:10

Chong Warrior said:
Yeah absolutely amazing loyalty to want to stay at the biggest club during it's most succesfull period ever.... please!

:/ dear god...

He could have quite easily gone and do what a lot of players do if they win a lot with a club, go abroad for a new challenge

Also, the last few years when we havent won much, and he hasnt been a regular starter, he could have quite easily gone elsewhere. True the bigger clubs may not have all gone for him due to his age, but there would still be a lot of demand for him. So he could have quite easily have done that

BaZ87 · 1 Mar 2007 at 15:16

Steedie said:
Also, the last few years when we havent won much, and he hasnt been a regular starter, he could have quite easily gone elsewhere. True the bigger clubs may not have all gone for him due to his age, but there would still be a lot of demand for him. So he could have quite easily have done that

Yea and got 1/4 of the wage he's on at Utd

BTW not saying he's not loyal, just that its easy to be loyal when your playing at a successful club, getting payed top money and the only move would be to a lesser club or abroad (where, in general, british players aren't successful and don't seem to want to go) and be on less money. No real way of determining his loyalty as its hardly been tested, just have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Chong Warrior · 1 Mar 2007 at 15:34

Steedie said:
:/ dear god...

He could have quite easily gone and do what a lot of players do if they win a lot with a club, go abroad for a new challenge

Also, the last few years when we havent won much, and he hasnt been a regular starter, he could have quite easily gone elsewhere. True the bigger clubs may not have all gone for him due to his age, but there would still be a lot of demand for him. So he could have quite easily have done that

dear god what? :rolleyes:

A lot of players?? Leaving the Premiership??

Name them...

Chong Warrior · 1 Mar 2007 at 15:35

and don't say Beckham, he was kicked out

or Stam