Good Cheap Server - HP Proliant Microserver 4 BAY - OWNERS THREAD

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 14:59

Burnsy2023 said:
I think we're going to need examples here.

Have you done a basic install of WS2008R2 Standard? It has 0 features and 0 roles installed, which include no desktop services at all, as well as bugger all server features..

I'm not willing to go 'all in' on this, but why are you thinking different?

Jakus · 16 Mar 2011 at 15:22

Demon said:
I appreciate the concern, but some of us have an ounce of common sense!

I used internal drive to drive transfer rates of a single 5Gb compressed zip files to confirm the 'raw' internal perfomance, I time the transfers to double check any 'reported' transfer rates. This is all done using Windows Server 2008 R2. Obviously I'm looking at the drive interface, I didn't want to use the network performance as the indicator for that.

In SATA Mode, the transfers start at a reported 80-90MB/s but as the memory saturates (I only have 1Gb) this drops to ~50MB/s, the timed average is 58MB/s
In IDE Mode, the transfers start at 100-120MB/s and slowly fall to ~65MB/s with a timed average showing 74MB/s.
I am awaiting my 4Gb RAM turning up so I can check if that helps sustain the transfers or not, the CPU certainly isn't bound..
Looking at this, http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_barracuda_green_2tb_review_st2000dl003 I don't see my figures being anything other then realistic, the CPU isn't remotely max'd out etc, and it's on newly formatted drives..

It may be the AMD AHCI driver, I've seen people complain that the performance dropped after they installed the AMD driver on WHS and uninstalled to verify and sure enough this was an issue for them..

No suggestion of incompetence, just the shock that my kit is far behind

I also assumed everyone was talking network transfers being as we are really talking servers. Please do some more testing with mixed files and i will try some "internal testing" with different modes.

Jakus · 16 Mar 2011 at 15:34

Burnsy2023 said:
All features that Win7 doesn't have as standard either? Server is no more lightweight than 7.

That said, I'm using it because I will be needing these features.

I agree with Demon, I don't really like it much but hey, I can't knock it's efficiency. 22-23 watts idle more than happy with 1 gig of ram (suggest You only allocate 32mb for the graphics)

I'll be perfectly honest I discounted it as MS has got worse every time new software is released and personally besides it's handling of new drives and Graphics I hate Win7

slewis1972 · 16 Mar 2011 at 16:24

Demon said:
There is no connector in the 5.25" bay, there is just a spare SATA connector on the Motherboard, you can hook up a SATA HDD or ODD to it..

The original bios did put this SATA connection in IDE mode , but the latest and patched bios' where supposed to have fixed that..

And the transfer rates to it seem fine to me, it works well as an OS drive..

Ace. I basically have a sata > ide adaptor, plugged into a ide > sdcard adaptor. Used it before to run an OS off a microsd card, so plan to try the same with Fedora 14 and Amahi. I'll report back to see how I get on.
Amahi is not supported on a usb stick hence why going down this route as fingers crossed, from when I used it last, the bios recognised the microsd card as a hdd.

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 17:39

slewis1972 said:
Ace. I basically have a sata > ide adaptor, plugged into a ide > sdcard adaptor. Used it before to run an OS off a microsd card, so plan to try the same with Fedora 14 and Amahi. I'll report back to see how I get on.
Amahi is not supported on a usb stick hence why going down this route as fingers crossed, from when I used it last, the bios recognised the microsd card as a hdd.

Although it's no use to you by the sounds of it, there is an internal USB socket which is perfect of USB sticks to run OS's off.. (Or MicroSD USB Adapters, or any USB device).

And from this thead, a Live USB may be possible for Amahi.

http://forums.amahi.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1524

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 17:58

JAKUS said:
I agree with Demon, I don't really like it much but hey, I can't knock it's efficiency. 22-23 watts idle more than happy with 1 gig of ram (suggest You only allocate 32mb for the graphics)

I'll be perfectly honest I discounted it as MS has got worse every time new software is released and personally besides it's handling of new drives and Graphics I hate Win7

I've done some quick testing and am confident WS2008R2 is pretty cut down with a base install.

Just doing some quick sanity checks,
With all drivers installed and 1 feature + 6 apps installed on my WS2008R2 install, I have
30 Processes (3 of which are non-windows)
49 Running services (3 of which are non-windows)
cached memory is 360MB, Kernel 78MB

With a VMWare of an almost virgin Win7 Home Premium install with no drivers to speak of, there are
48 Processes (2 of which aren't windows)
62 running services
870MB cached memory
128MB Kernel

It's hard to be totally scientific, I booted each from scratch and left them 30 mins to settle down, they are quite representative of pretty clean installs, the VMWare one is pretty empty bar being fully updated to SP1 etc, but all default windows drivers and no real apps installed either.

WILD9 · 16 Mar 2011 at 19:26

Have to agree with the above I've always found server 2008 to be lighter than a windows 7 install. Assuming you don't go mad adding in roles and features it remains that way in use too.

steinooo · 16 Mar 2011 at 20:16

thinking out loud here, couple of questions if I may, does ESXi allow hdds of varying size? I can't picture how it would see the storage....

also, can you set ESXi to output video over VGA of one of the virtual machines?

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 21:56

I've done more testing using WS2008R2 and IDE Modes (AHCI/RAID/IDE), all using single volumes formatted as NTFS with 0% Fragmentation.

CONCLUSION
The short answer is, IDE is quickest, then RAID, and there is something wrong with AHCI (I assume a driver issue).

IDE MODE COMPARISON
I'm using the latest AMD Complete Chipset installation (March 2011)

Test: Single 7.7GB (8330383 bytes) MKV File transferred from WD20EARS to another WD20EARS then a SAMSUNG F3 1GB
IDE:
To WD20EARS , 81 Seconds = 100.5 MB/s
To SAMF3, 92 Seconds = 88.5 MB/s

RAID: (Just set to RAID in the bios, still single volumes)
To WD20EARS , 85 Seconds = 96 MB/s
To SAMF3, 95 Seconds = 85 MB/s

AHCI starts off OK, as the others,windows reports 120MB/s+, but about 1.5Gb in, it starts slowing down, by 50% of the file, it's below 50MB/s and by the end it's heading towards 40 MB/s..

WHS2011 quick look
Whilst I was at it, I installed WHS2011 and noticed a couple of things
Completely Fresh Install, 67 Processes, over 1Gb Cached Memory, I assume it's aimed at the "I want every feature possible out of the box" user, which is fine with 3GB of RAM it seemed to handle it all easily enough, the odd process did fire off while transferring files around which caused minor hiccups..

NETWORK LARGE FILE
And a quick best case network check,

From Microserver A (WS2008R2) WD20EARS, same 7.7Gb file, to Microserver B (WHS2011) 250Gb OS drive and a WD 1TB and timing the transfers for accuracy
Oddly, it's slightly quicker to the OS drive (The 250Gb one supplied by HP)..
WD 250GB = 87.8MB/s
WD 1TB = 84 MB/s

This intrigued me a little, either the older (And it's a green WD 1TB drive) is saturating at 84MB/s, or the SATA driver is also playing up a little, the OS drive is off the IDE controller (According to windows), the WD 1TB is off an AHCI SATA Channel..

eSATA
This never seemed to work, and I'd given up, but as soon as I set the IDE mode to RAID in the bios, it started working, and even thought I've swapped IDE modes now several times, it continues to work! Result..

elrasho · 16 Mar 2011 at 22:17

Demon said:
I've done some quick testing and am confident WS2008R2 is pretty cut down with a base install.

Just doing some quick sanity checks,
With all drivers installed and 1 feature + 6 apps installed on my WS2008R2 install, I have
30 Processes (3 of which are non-windows)
49 Running services (3 of which are non-windows)
cached memory is 360MB, Kernel 78MB

With a VMWare of an almost virgin Win7 Home Premium install with no drivers to speak of, there are
48 Processes (2 of which aren't windows)
62 running services
870MB cached memory
128MB Kernel

It's hard to be totally scientific, I booted each from scratch and left them 30 mins to settle down, they are quite representative of pretty clean installs, the VMWare one is pretty empty bar being fully updated to SP1 etc, but all default windows drivers and no real apps installed either.

How are you finding Win2008 on this little server? Im thinking of getting one to install Win2008 on just to mess about

mattyj1085 · 16 Mar 2011 at 22:35

Will this ram work in this server? OCZ Platinum 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666C9 1333MHz Ultra Low Voltage Dual Channel Kit http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-219-OC

I've borrowed 4GB that its in at the minute but need to give that back soon!

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 22:44

elrasho said:
How are you finding Win2008 on this little server? Im thinking of getting one to install Win2008 on just to mess about

It suits me perfectly, I'm not using RAID or anything more then single volumes on each disk formatted as NTFS, just backing up using a sync solution overnight, and I couldn't ask for more, really good large file transfers, and still decent small/mixed file transfers..

Transferring a file over the network at 80+MB/s and also downloading over SSL flatout from usenet, the processor has plenty of headroom, windows keeps the clock speed down at 800MHZ, and it still doesn't reach 50% on average...

If you wanted a lot of CPU intensive features/roles installed, then I imagine it'll struggle obviously...

Methanoid · 16 Mar 2011 at 22:45

Demon said:
I've done more testing using WS2008R2 and IDE Modes (AHCI/RAID/IDE), all using single volumes formatted as NTFS with 0% Fragmentation.

CONCLUSION
The short answer is, IDE is quickest, then RAID, and there is something wrong with AHCI (I assume a driver issue).

IDE MODE COMPARISON
I'm using the latest AMD Complete Chipset installation (March 2011)

Test: Single 7.7GB (8330383 bytes) MKV File transferred from WD20EARS to another WD20EARS then a SAMSUNG F3 1GB
IDE:
To WD20EARS , 81 Seconds = 100.5 MB/s
To SAMF3, 92 Seconds = 88.5 MB/s

RAID: (Just set to RAID in the bios, still single volumes)
To WD20EARS , 85 Seconds = 96 MB/s
To SAMF3, 95 Seconds = 85 MB/s

AHCI starts off OK, as the others,windows reports 120MB/s+, but about 1.5Gb in, it starts slowing down, by 50% of the file, it's below 50MB/s and by the end it's heading towards 40 MB/s..

WHS2011 quick look
Whilst I was at it, I installed WHS2011 and noticed a couple of things
Completely Fresh Install, 67 Processes, over 1Gb Cached Memory, I assume it's aimed at the "I want every feature possible out of the box" user, which is fine with 3GB of RAM it seemed to handle it all easily enough, the odd process did fire off while transferring files around which caused minor hiccups..

NETWORK LARGE FILE
And a quick best case network check,

From Microserver A (WS2008R2) WD20EARS, same 7.7Gb file, to Microserver B (WHS2011) 250Gb OS drive and a WD 1TB and timing the transfers for accuracy
Oddly, it's slightly quicker to the OS drive (The 250Gb one supplied by HP)..
WD 250GB = 87.8MB/s
WD 1TB = 84 MB/s

This intrigued me a little, either the older (And it's a green WD 1TB drive) is saturating at 84MB/s, or the SATA driver is also playing up a little, the OS drive is off the IDE controller (According to windows), the WD 1TB is off an AHCI SATA Channel..

eSATA
This never seemed to work, and I'd given up, but as soon as I set the IDE mode to RAID in the bios, it started working, and even thought I've swapped IDE modes now several times, it continues to work! Result..

Excellent informative post. You've convinced me that IDE setting is the way to go. Few questions tho... to complete picture

1) Which BIOS were you using? Latest HP or the Russian hacked one?
2) How much memory?
3) Can you LINK to the drivers you used please?
4) eSATA - dont understand you. Are you saying the port doesnt work UNTIL you select RAID but dont actually create a RAID volume at all?

But I'd say we need more posts like this that actually contain some info. The thread is SO long that its starting to get less and less useful (IMHO) and harder to find info.

But well done!

elrasho · 16 Mar 2011 at 23:00

Demon said:
It suits me perfectly, I'm not using RAID or anything more then single volumes on each disk formatted as NTFS, just backing up using a sync solution overnight, and I couldn't ask for more, really good large file transfers, and still decent small/mixed file transfers..

Transferring a file over the network at 80+MB/s and also downloading over SSL flatout from usenet, the processor has plenty of headroom, windows keeps the clock speed down at 800MHZ, and it still doesn't reach 50% on average...

If you wanted a lot of CPU intensive features/roles installed, then I imagine it'll struggle obviously...

Hmmmm after the cashback deal and adding 4GB of ram it's gonna cost me £170. I could spec a Intel E6600 based computer for £210, that's only £40 more but much much more powerful. Although the power usage would be a lot higher.... Im stuck on which way to go about this any advice would be greatly appreciated

My main use will be to mess around with Windows Server 2008, possibly make a web server or could even add a low profile graphic card and use it as a media center. The one thing that bugs me is he CPU, I might want to use VMs one day and the AMD wont be enough to power them

Demon · 16 Mar 2011 at 23:42

Methanoid said:
Excellent informative post. You've convinced me that IDE setting is the way to go. Few questions tho... to complete picture

1) Which BIOS were you using? Latest HP or the Russian hacked one?
2) How much memory?
3) Can you LINK to the drivers you used please?
4) eSATA - dont understand you. Are you saying the port doesnt work UNTIL you select RAID but dont actually create a RAID volume at all?

But I'd say we need more posts like this that actually contain some info. The thread is SO long that its starting to get less and less useful (IMHO) and harder to find info.

But well done!

Cheers

Quick answers
1. The latest HP Bios
2. 3Gb (2Gb Crucial ECC + the 1Gb supplied), I used the crucial system selector, and it was £26 for 2Gb
3. http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/embedded/Pages/embedded_windows_all.aspx (And would you adam and eve it, they've just released a new version!) I used the 8.82's (Windows 7 Drivers)
4. Yes, initially with the IDE mode set to IDE or AHCI, my external eSATA HDD was not recognised at all by the normal bios (It's just a normally formatted external HDD). As soon as I set the IDE mode to RAID and rebooted, the external eSATA HDD was recognised by the bios (appears in the list of detected HDD's). I never actually setup any RAID array or used any aspect of the onboard RAID, it just seemed to trigger the enabling of the eSATA port, and it's stayed that way despite setting the IDE Mode back to IDE/AHCI.. Someone else reported the eSATA not working a few pages back..

Notes on installing the drivers
I unzipped the downloaded drivers and ran the setup.exe, just doing an 'express' intallation..
This installs the SATA/RAID AHCI drivers OK (Checked driver versions against those in the zipped package), but for some reason it doesn't install the Radeon 4200 drivers..
But if you find the Display Adapter in Device Manager (Standard VGA by default), right click, Update Driver, point it at the unzipped drivers from the first step, make sure the search subfolders is ticked, and it'll find the 4200 driver!

To save you time, I've retested the 8.83 chipset drivers, and no difference, checking the SATA driver supplied in the 8.83 zip, it's the same one from 11/11/2010, so it's not surprising it's not changed...

Guru · 17 Mar 2011 at 03:55

Has anyone else failed to install server 2008 x64 enterprise because it won't pick up their raid drivers to find the array on the start of the installation? It finds the drivers but says they are unsigned and refuses to use them :confused I know you can turn off unsigned driver checking once windows is installed, but at the moment I can't even install it

Anyone got a signed x64 raid driver for this server please?

Thanks,

G

Spooter · 17 Mar 2011 at 08:06

64bit Windows only allows you to install signed drivers. The only way to use unsigned drivers is to inject them into the image before installation using dism with the /ForceUnsigned command.

Burnsy2023 · 17 Mar 2011 at 08:13

Why the hell aren't they signed by AMD?

Demon · 17 Mar 2011 at 08:43

Guru said:
Has anyone else failed to install server 2008 x64 enterprise because it won't pick up their raid drivers to find the array on the start of the installation? It finds the drivers but says they are unsigned and refuses to use them :confused I know you can turn off unsigned driver checking once windows is installed, but at the moment I can't even install it

Anyone got a signed x64 raid driver for this server please?

Thanks,

G

Is the driver you used the one linked from HP's download area?
http://wwwd.amd.com/AMD/SReleaseF.n...v3.2.1540.75~SB710,SB8xx~Windows%AEServer2008
That is WHQL Certified, you think it'd be signed?

If not, a list of all embedded drivers is here,
http://wwwd.amd.com/AMD/SReleaseF.nsf/softwarepages/DriversbyDeviceChipset?OpenDocument

The Chipset is the RS785E Northbridge, SB820 South bridge.

RoyMi6 · 17 Mar 2011 at 13:34

I've just managed to source another two HDD for my RAID array.

I've currently got 3 drives installed at the moment (1 x 250GB OS,and 2 x 2TB mirrored data).

I was hoping to put the 250GB OS drive resting in the CDROM space and put my two new drives in the RAID array. I'm at work and can pick up cables on the way home so was wondering if anyone can tell me what connectors I'll need to get to connect up the 250GB drive outside the RAID.

From reading here, and a quick look inside originally, am I right in thinking that I'll just need a Molex to SATA power adapter and a SATA data cable?

Cheers,
Roy