GordyR's Beginners Guide to Bodybuilding

What is the recommendation to the weight you should be lifting? Having just started a week or so ago I'm not really sure what I should be aiming for. As heavy as I can do 1 set of 8? Do 20kg squats sound a bit light for a starter like me?

I'm 5'10 and 10st 12.
 
Don't dive in at the deep end with the weight and injure yourself, learning the correct form is essential at first.

General concessus - for me anyway- is to use a weight where you can do 3 sets of 8 reps and by the final rep of final set you should be feeling it but not quite at the point of failure.

Key point here is start off low and get comfortable, a lot of people let thier ego do the thinking and end up injuring themselves.
 
Paramount said:
What is the recommendation to the weight you should be lifting? Having just started a week or so ago I'm not really sure what I should be aiming for. As heavy as I can do 1 set of 8? Do 20kg squats sound a bit light for a starter like me?

I'm 5'10 and 10st 12.

What has already been said above tbh. There is no general guideline or recommendation to what weight you should be lifting, it's depends entirely on your own level of strength and any other factors, Injury, form etc.

Keep the weight low at first and get the form perfect or you will either quickly injure yourself or will get nothing from you workouts.

You don't want to be going for a weight that's heavy enough so that you can only do 1 set of 8. What you should be looking at for squats is a couple of warm-up sets on a light weight to get the blood flowing and warm up your knees and other joints, and then at your stage roughly 3x8 or 3x10 so that by the last rep on the last rep it's hard but not impossible. That would be excellent for a beginner imo.

Have you any sort of routine?
 
Paramount said:
What is the recommendation to the weight you should be lifting? Having just started a week or so ago I'm not really sure what I should be aiming for. As heavy as I can do 1 set of 8? Do 20kg squats sound a bit light for a starter like me?

I'm 5'10 and 10st 12.

weight plays a small part in building muscle.
form and intensity is what you want to be concerned with, weight will come in time :]
 
Morba said:
weight plays a small part in building muscle.
form and intensity is what you want to be concerned with, weight will come in time :]

I can't quite believe I missed this out. Well said Morba.

Perfect form and a Concentrated intense effort will show much better results than poor form and heavy weight, or 'bouncing' the weight.
 
S7yl3s said:
I can't quite believe I missed this out. Well said Morba.

Perfect form and a Concentrated intense effort will show much better results than poor form and heavy weight, or 'bouncing' the weight.

:D

form is above anything in the gym imo :]
 
Morba said:
:D

form is above anything in the gym imo :]

I agree, without it workouts would be nothing. It's the form and the intensity of the effort that give results. Weight most often has little bearing on muscle building.
 
Hmmm while I agree that form is ultra important, I wouldn't go so far as to say weight has little bearing on muscular hypertrophy.

If you can bench press 300lb's with poor form then chances are you are far bigger than somone who can only bench press 150lb's with perfect form.

Muscular hypertrophy is simply the body adapting to stress. The more weight you are able to lift, the larger you become. Of course, form is of upmost importance as the stimuli of each specific exercise needs to be effective, but it is progressive resistance which stimulates muscle growth.

Benching 100lb's with perfect form week after week will get you absolutely nowhere. You have to force your body to react to the stress.
 
GordyR said:
Hmmm while I agree that form is ultra important, I wouldn't go so far as to say weight has little bearing on muscular hypertrophy.

If you can bench press 300lb's with poor form then chances are you are far bigger than somone who can only bench press 150lb's with perfect form.

Muscular hypertrophy is simply the body adapting to stress. The more weight you are able to lift, the larger you become. Of course, form is of upmost importance as the stimuli of each specific exercise needs to be effective, but it is progressive resistance which stimulates muscle growth.

Benching 100lb's with perfect form week after week will get you absolutely nowhere. You have to force your body to react to the stress.

which is where the intensity part comes in, which i also mentioned ;]
 
GordyR said:
Hmmm while I agree that form is ultra important, I wouldn't go so far as to say weight has little bearing on muscular hypertrophy.

Absoloutly, that wasn't what I was saying but I understand my wording was poor. I wasn't going into extremes.

If you can bench press 300lb's with poor form then chances are you are far bigger than somone who can only bench press 150lb's with perfect form.

But of course it doesn't always work this way. What I was implying above doesn't have this massive range of difference between the weight i.e 150lbs. If you can bench press 300lbs with poor form then you are not properly training your chest. Poor form on bench to push more than you can properly will involve many other muscles, your lats will spread and help push the lift, your shoulders will come into play heavily etc.

Let's take it to a less extreme and more reasonable level. You bench press 300lbs with bad form for one month. Your mate who is exactly the same strength as you bench presses 250lbs for one month with perfect form, pressing with the chest and squeezing the rep out hard. Your mate will end up with a more full chest.

Muscular hypertrophy is simply the body adapting to stress. The more weight you are able to lift, the larger you become. Of course, form is of upmost importance as the stimuli of each specific exercise needs to be effective, but it is progressive resistance which stimulates muscle growth.

'The more weight you lift, the larger you become' is a massively generalised statement. It's just not that simple.

It seems to me as you're implying size = strength, when of course it doesn't. I've seen 160lb chaps deadlift ridiculous amounts, and 300lb guys deadlift pathetic amounts.

You cannot live on the edge of your max. and just hope that you may grow. Less weight and more focus, squeeze, and concetration and you will get a lot further than believeing you can get results because you can lift more than Joe bloggs next to you, but badly.

Eventually you will start to get bigger yes, but bodybuilding is not about the weight you lift, it's about the % of your maximum you lift and how you lift it.

Benching 100lb's with perfect form week after week will get you absolutely nowhere. You have to force your body to react to the stress.

Again, massively generalised. If you can bench 100lbs with good form, working the chest perfectly, and then you jump to 130lbs and you struggle but stick at it with bad form because you believe you're going to get a lot bigger than the guy who's working his chest perfectly, then you're going to be in for a shock when it comes down to it at the end of the day.
 
S7yl3s said:
Let's take it to a less extreme and more reasonable level. You bench press 300lbs with bad form for one month. Your mate who is exactly the same strength as you bench presses 250lbs for one month with perfect form, pressing with the chest and squeezing the rep out hard. Your mate will end up with a more full chest.

Oh don't get me wrong I agree with every word of your post mate. It was just the whole "Weight isn't important in muscle building" that I jumped on. :)

S7yl3s said:
It seems to me as you're implying size = strength,

Not at all. Size/strength do not have a directly proportional relationship if you are comparing different people. However what is certain is that for an individual, as you get stronger you will ultimately get larger, and vice versa. That doesn't mean form isn't important, quite the reverse.

S7yl3s said:
when of course it doesn't. I've seen 160lb chaps deadlift ridiculous amounts, and 300lb guys deadlift pathetic amounts.

Indeed but to be fair, that doesn't mean that the 300lb guy doesn't have the potential to lift far more. :p

There are so many more factors involved in strength, the guy may be extremely heavy but his CNS might be unable to activate a good percentage of his muscle fibres for instance. etc...etc...

S7yl3s said:
You cannot live on the edge of your max. and just hope that you may grow. Less weight and more focus, squeeze, and concetration and you will get a lot further than believeing you can get results because you can lift more than Joe bloggs next to you, but badly.

Again, agreed.

S7yl3s said:
but bodybuilding is not about the weight you lift, it's about the % of your maximum you lift and how you lift it.

Spot on! That was exactly my point. It's about the % of your maximum lift. The weight being lifted is important. Hence Morba's use of the word intensity, which covers it for me. It's no good having perfect form if the weight you are lifting doesn't tax your muscles at all. The key is to keep increasing the weights as your body adapts and grows. Otherwise known as progressive resistance.

Personally I think form/weight are equally as important as one another. If either is incorrect then you will not be getting the results you want.

S7yl3s said:
Again, massively generalised. If you can bench 100lbs with good form, working the chest perfectly, and then you jump to 130lbs and you struggle but stick at it with bad form because you believe you're going to get a lot bigger than the guy who's working his chest perfectly, then you're going to be in for a shock when it comes down to it at the end of the day.

The key word there is perfectly. If you are training perfectly then you will be lifting a heavy enough weight to stimulate hypertrophy. If that 100lb weight is not heavy enough for you as an individual then no matter how perfect your form is, you will not grow.


Anyway, I think its clear that we both agree and understand what each other is saying. Like I said I just jumped on the "Weight isn't important in muscle building" even though I was aware that you didn't mean it in quite the way it sounded. I'm a pedant sometimes... Sorry mate. I was just being an awkward sod. :D
 
Last edited:
No need to apologise mate, I see what you were getting at now. Same point, different wording. I was tired and grumpy last nite so that didn't help me :eek:

Well I'll move off that strangely pointless exchange we just had and ask, how's training going?
 
Sorry guys, one more question.

This random photo I'm about to post, taken purely randomly from my password protected archive of my favorite piccies, what is the muscle either side of this fine chaps neck and what is the best exercise to work it? I'm still learning but I'd say its upper back and lat pulldowns or chin ups would do?

gordy1wj4.jpg


I've been going to the gym for about a month, have learnt a lot and have almost fitted comfortably into my routine (started with the 3 day split as original posted but have now moved to a 2 day upper/lower body split with a day off inbetween each session). I'm lifting more than I started with, but having read the importance of form and performing a proper full rep I'm now trying to perfect that before going heavier. It's a lot harder when you do it properly! It's really satisfying to see results too. Thanks to all for the great info provided in this thread, I'd be nowhere without it!
 
Paramount said:
....what is the muscle either side of this fine chaps neck and what is the best exercise to work it? I'm still learning but I'd say its upper back and lat pulldowns or chin ups would do?

Thats the upper part of Gordys trapezius and you're right its upper back but pulldowns and chin ups don't really work the upper back (they do but for the purpose of this post they don't ;) ).

The best way to work the traps is shrugs - http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/BackWt.html#anchor1914548

My personal favourites are smith machine shrugs, with BB or DB shrugs I usually end up tearing the small bunch of fibres in my upper back :(

Best form is to raise the bar/dumbbells lifting the shoulders as high as possible, pause for a second or two, then control the negative. Don't roll your shoulders, its a shortcut to injury not big traps!! :cool:
 
Ok, so quick update on how I'm getting along. It's been almost a week, been the gym twice so far, was going for a shower, so thought I'd grab a pic ! Not really a comparison pic to the others, but this is me 20min ago :eek:

dsc00146qs7.jpg


Regards.
 
Linoge said:
Well this is the email I fired off to Holland & Barrett's health and information team:



I got a reply this morning, it doesn't directly answer the question and I think she missed the point I was making by referring to the Super One tablets which are not the ones I bought or made reference to.



The bit in bold is the thing that caught my eye, yes the Super One tablet is well within the upper safe limit of 8,000 i.u at 2,500 i.u, but the One tablets are 9,900 I.U!!! She must not have taken in my email.

EDIT:

I've just replied with this:
Did you get a reply to your 2nd email mate?

Also I think I may have found a possible answer. Have read of this thread over on MP http://forum.myprotein.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7359
 
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