Got a nightclub photography gig tomorrow... tips and recommendations?

[Richdog]

Hi guys,

I will be doing the photography tomorrow for a nightclub who are having a (late) Paddys Day celebration. It will be a dim nightclub with the usual mix oflow ambient light on the sid eof the dancefloor, and spotlights and probably colours on the dancefloor.

My available kit is:

• Nikon D750
• Nikon 24-120 f/4 (great IQ but slower constant aperture)
• Nikon 35-70 f/2.8 (push-pull, soft at 70mm w. 2.8, great at 60mm and below w. 2.8)
• Nikon 50mm f/1.8 (fast and amazingly sharp, but too narrow for clubs I think)
• Yongnuo 565 EX with diffuser

As you can see, I do not have a dearth of good fast glass available as I rarely shoot in low light indoors. While I would love to be able to shoot with natural light only, I have the feeling that my 24-120mm f/4 is going to be the only lens that covers the focal range needed for groups and nice portraits, but of course it is a stop slower than 2.8, and even with VR this will be a problem for anything that is moving unless I ramp up the ISO very highly (also an option as the D750 is great in that respect). Thus, I am likely going to need a cleverly diffused and bounced flash in the form of my Yong to ensure some decent and even lighting.

So chaps what do you think... can I get away with the 24-120 and flash combo? Any tips for me, other than running out to buy a new lens tomorrow?

 

[Mr Badger]

Do a search for "second curtain flash" and experiment with those settings on a dry run to see what exposure works for you.

And I would still take the prime for some shallow DOF portraits.

 

[Steeps]

Wide lenses will be better, 50mm is probably going to be too much unless you just want head and shoulders. Don't worry too much about fast glass as you'll be shooting groups of people who might not be level with your focal plane. Set your exposure for the room/atmosphere so you get some good lighting around the subjects (even if it means running a 1/4 shutter speed), then direct flash (don't bounce it or diffuse as it will affect the nightclub lighting) at them to freeze them where they are. Second curtain on the flash would be better but not essential. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO if needed. If you turn up early and the club is fairly empty it will give you a chance to test the lighting before it gets too busy.

 

[D.P.]

You will need to use a flash so I don't think the 50mm really has an advantage,nor the 35-70mm really. The other thign is as Steeps says, you are shooting groups of people so you don't want a shallow DoF, you need something sufficient to make sure people are in focus. A smaller aperture will also help take care of focus issues, e.g. people moving


I would shoot the 24-120, typically stopped down to f/5.6. Plenty of flexibility, portraits to groups and whole club all in one lens without stress. Even at f/5.6 the DoF will be shallow enough such that the background wont be distracting. Why people mostly want shallow DoF is to separate subject form background, that can be done better by exploitation perspective and ensuring the subject is fully sharp. A wide angle lens at f/2.0 will create a much busier background than a 100mm lens at f/4.0, the former will lead to soft edges around the subject, the latter will ensure the subject is very crisp and thus helping to give a 3D effect.


In a club shooting a 50mm at f/1.8 and ISO 6400 will still not give you any good photos. Since people are dancing and moving, or swaying and drunk, you will want much more than 1/50th to ensure sharp subjects, but the flash will achieve this for you even at f/5.6 (although the flash exposure might be 1/60th, the flahs itself is like 1/1000th so freezes motion).

As Mr Badger say, club photography often does well with second curtain flash. Basically you can have the flash fire at the start or end of the exposure, normally it does it at the start but if you do it at the end (called rear curtain on Nikon), then the foreground subject will look super imposed over a blurred background.

 

[Richdog]

Do a search for "second curtain flash" and experiment with those settings on a dry run to see what exposure works for you.

And I would still take the prime for some shallow DOF portraits.

Ok will have a play today, thanks!

Wide lenses will be better, 50mm is probably going to be too much unless you just want head and shoulders. Don't worry too much about fast glass as you'll be shooting groups of people who might not be level with your focal plane. Set your exposure for the room/atmosphere so you get some good lighting around the subjects (even if it means running a 1/4 shutter speed), then direct flash (don't bounce it or diffuse as it will affect the nightclub lighting) at them to freeze them where they are. Second curtain on the flash would be better but not essential. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO if needed. If you turn up early and the club is fairly empty it will give you a chance to test the lighting before it gets too busy.

Yeah I am definitely getting there at least half an hour early to setup and test the lighting. Regarding the flash are you sure direct will work best? I presume you mean on full manual set to low, or do you mean still using TTL?

You will need to use a flash so I don't think the 50mm really has an advantage,nor the 35-70mm really. The other thign is as Steeps says, you are shooting groups of people so you don't want a shallow DoF, you need something sufficient to make sure people are in focus. A smaller aperture will also help take care of focus issues, e.g. people moving

I would shoot the 24-120, typically stopped down to f/5.6. Plenty of flexibility, portraits to groups and whole club all in one lens without stress. Even at f/5.6 the DoF will be shallow enough such that the background wont be distracting. Why people mostly want shallow DoF is to separate subject form background, that can be done better by exploitation perspective and ensuring the subject is fully sharp. A wide angle lens at f/2.0 will create a much busier background than a 100mm lens at f/4.0, the former will lead to soft edges around the subject, the latter will ensure the subject is very crisp and thus helping to give a 3D effect.

In a club shooting a 50mm at f/1.8 and ISO 6400 will still not give you any good photos. Since people are dancing and moving, or swaying and drunk, you will want much more than 1/50th to ensure sharp subjects, but the flash will achieve this for you even at f/5.6 (although the flash exposure might be 1/60th, the flahs itself is like 1/1000th so freezes motion).

As Mr Badger say, club photography often does well with second curtain flash. Basically you can have the flash fire at the start or end of the exposure, normally it does it at the start but if you do it at the end (called rear curtain on Nikon), then the foreground subject will look super imposed over a blurred background.

Some good info and tips there, thanks DP! Agree with the aperture and DOF comments, I think for my first gig it's just important to get some decent sharp pictures than faff around going for anything fancy.

Will definitely have a play with the second curtain on my Yong today!

Thanks you guys much appreciated.

Will also remember batteries... lots of batteries...

 

[Steeps]

I still used mine on TTL as it was the first time I was using an external flash, with the flash head pointing directly at the subjects without a diffuser on.

One of the clubs I shot at was essentially a 1500 capacity warehouse with very little room to move due to people, even at 24mm I was struggling to get more than head and shoulders shots, all the lighting coming from the stage/rigging from the roof. This shot was 24mm f5.6 ISO 200 and a shutter speed of 1/3 to try and catch some of the sweeping lights in the background:

In a smaller venue I had to shoot wider and with a higher shutter speed but bumped the ISO to get more of the lighting in. If lighting moves around then I would recommend a slower shutter, underexpose the shot and let the flash on TTL freeze the subjects while the dragged shutter captures the moving light.

I carried 1 spare camera battery and a pack of 4 AA's for the flash, on very busy nights I would have to change the flash batteries but the camera was usually fine.

 

[Richdog]

Well, event over... it went "ok", and by that I meant I took some nice photos but it could certainly have been better. One thing I noted was that the plastic diffuser I used (Stofen) still caused shiny face syndrome (SFS) unless really angled away from the subject. I will look at buying another diffuser that can provide a less focussed, softer light... maybe the collapsible lightsphere or Graslon Prodigy.

I also had a few issues with focus, namely when people are standing next to each other but not level, and one or more people are slightly out of focus. WHat is the best way of avoiding that other than lining people up manually?

Thanks again for the info, and I learned some important lessons!

 

[D.P.]

The best solution is to stop down, f/8 or more.
This is a very common mistake for events.

The other option is to go shallow and purposely have the other people out of focus by shifting your alignment to be at say 45*.

It is something i run into a lot at events, I gor.from shooting a single person portrat at f/4.0 to shooting a group of 2-3 and although I might stop down to f/6.3 that is often not enough Sonim conciously stopping down further.

You can try to get a bettee alignment with the people, but if they are not at the same level then there is not much you can do. Look at DoF charts to get a feel.

 

[Richdog]

The best solution is to stop down, f/8 or more.
This is a very common mistake for events.

The other option is to go shallow and purposely have the other people out of focus by shifting your alignment to be at say 45*.

It is something i run into a lot at events, I gor.from shooting a single person portrat at f/4.0 to shooting a group of 2-3 and although I might stop down to f/6.3 that is often not enough Sonim conciously stopping down further.

You can try to get a bettee alignment with the people, but if they are not at the same level then there is not much you can do. Look at DoF charts to get a feel.

I was at f7/f8 most of the time and at ISO 100 with my Yongnuo.

I think I may have been in the wrong (or at least sub-optimal) focus mode... I was in AF-C d51. If it was a single person and I had more time I would simply set the point manually on the eye... but for more than one person and under time pressure that wasn't so good.

 

[Richdog]

So tomorrow I have another gig in another club, an Aprils fool event with some live entertainer doing impressions of famous female singers or something.

I was thinking to try and go it without flash using a 50mm 1.8 and an ISO of 1600-3200 to get the shutter speed to acceptable levels.

Thoughts?

 

[D.P.]

You wont have enough light, even at ISO 6400 and f/1.8
This is esepcially true for anyone dancing, then you will need far higher shutter speeds or a flash


Use AF-S focus mode.

 

[Razor-BladE]

As said, you definitely won't have enough light without a flash. And 50mm will be much too narrow.

Regarding people not being level with each other, although you'll never get a group of people exactly in line with each other you can minimize the problem.
I always try and get central and perpendicular to the majority of the group. So if they turned and faced you but they're all at a diagonal to you, for example, person on right is closest, person on left is furthest away, I would shift myself to the left and in a bit, so that the middle person will have the focus and persons left and right are equal distance away from focus point.
If that makes sense.

 

[Richdog]

You wont have enough light, even at ISO 6400 and f/1.8
This is esepcially true for anyone dancing, then you will need far higher shutter speeds or a flash

Use AF-S focus mode.

AF-S mode on a moving subject?

As said, you definitely won't have enough light without a flash. And 50mm will be much too narrow.

Regarding people not being level with each other, although you'll never get a group of people exactly in line with each other you can minimize the problem.
I always try and get central and perpendicular to the majority of the group. So if they turned and faced you but they're all at a diagonal to you, for example, person on right is closest, person on left is furthest away, I would shift myself to the left and in a bit, so that the middle person will have the focus and persons left and right are equal distance away from focus point.
If that makes sense.

Yeah similar to what I was thinking for next time, thanks!

 

[Combat squirrel]

I have done a lot of club/pub events photos in my time.

Last count was a good few hundred thousand shots in 6-7 years.

I use a 24-70 lens F2.8 and flash with small diffiusor on top.

No idea what's written above, and I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol

Single shot focus, use the flash assist light to focus on the flash, ISO 3200, ~60/80th sec at F4 (to make sure all the peoples faces in shot are in focus), dial the flash down -1/3 stop.

Oh yeah 2nd curtain sync it as well.

Job done, works wonderfully, gathers in ambiance light then the fill flash (on ettl mode) lights the people perfectly - mess around with dialling down the flash stops to balance for/background light.

 

[D.P.]

I have done a lot of club/pub events photos in my time.

Last count was a good few hundred thousand shots in 6-7 years.

I use a 24-70 lens F2.8 and flash with small diffiusor on top.

No idea what's written above, and I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol

Single shot focus, use the flash assist light to focus on the flash, ISO 3200, ~60/80th sec at F4 (to make sure all the peoples faces in shot are in focus), dial the flash down -1/3 stop.

Oh yeah 2nd curtain sync it as well.

Job done, works wonderfully, gathers in ambiance light then the fill flash (on ettl mode) lights the people perfectly - mess around with dialling down the flash stops to balance for/background light.

"I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol
Single shot focus,"

AF-S is single shot focus, the S stands for single!

 

[Richdog]

"I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol
Single shot focus,"

AF-S is single shot focus, the S stands for single!

AF-C = continuous autofocus

AF-S = single autofocus

Clarification here http://www.slrphotographyguide.com/camera/nikon-digital-slr/focus-modes.shtml

AF-C (AF continuous, sometimes called continuous servo) is good use when photographing moving objects. When your camera is set to AF-C and you focus on a moving subject, for example a dog running towards you, the focus will stay on the animal so long as your shutter button is held half way down. In other words, the camera will keep re-focusing as the animal moves. That is, so long as you keep your shutter button held half way down.

AF-S (AF single, sometimes called single area AF) mode, is good for photographing subjects that don't move, such as flowers or portraits etc. It locks the focus on the non moving object that you want to photograph. You can then recompose the shot and take the photograph.

So just a terminology mixup.

 

[D.P.]

Yeah. Think canon have some other weird naming, for a Nikon AF-S is autofocus-single, AF-C is autofocus-continuous.

 

[Richdog]

Ok, 24-120 with external flash it is once more then.

However I really need to get a replacement lens, because as I said before I HATE the bokeh on this lens, it's nervous, scrappy and just completely lacking in aesthetic quality.

Will aim for a Nikon 24-70 methinks.

 

[Combat squirrel]

"I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol
Single shot focus,"

AF-S is single shot focus, the S stands for single!

AF-C = continuous autofocus

AF-S = single autofocus

Clarification here http://www.slrphotographyguide.com/camera/nikon-digital-slr/focus-modes.shtml



So just a terminology mixup.

Haha yeah am a Canon user so don't know the Nikon naming! (infact no idea what the offical canon name is, I just know how to select that mode on a canon without even looking now - 2nd nature ! lol)

Glad we had the same idea though

 

[D.P.]

Ok, 24-120 with external flash it is once more then.

However I really need to get a replacement lens, because as I said before I HATE the bokeh on this lens, it's nervous, scrappy and just completely lacking in aesthetic quality.

Will aim for a Nikon 24-70 methinks.

Do yiu have any examples of bad bokeh from th s 24-120mm? I've never heard of anyone complain TBH, it isn't quite as smooth as the 24-70 but Plenty of professional wedding togs think it is pleasant enough. Not saying it is beautiful but my understanding is the bokeh isn't offensive from that lens. I've seen plenty of more nervous bokeh from fast primes.

Do you have the VR switched on, because that is known to make bokeh more nervous looking. It won't be needed with the flash.