Got a nightclub photography gig tomorrow... tips and recommendations?

Do yiu have any examples of bad bokeh from th s 24-120mm? I've never heard of anyone complain TBH, it isn't quite as smooth as the 24-70 but Plenty of professional wedding togs think it is pleasant enough. Not saying it is beautiful but my understanding is the bokeh isn't offensive from that lens. I've seen plenty of more nervous bokeh from fast primes.

Do you have the VR switched on, because that is known to make bokeh more nervous looking. It won't be needed with the flash.

Referenced quite a lot on the web https://www.google.ch/search?q=24-1...7.3845j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

I know it is of course subjective to "some" extent, but it is pretty damn nasty to my eye vs any other lens I have. I will try to remember to post some samples tomorrow from my own collection as I certainly have some prime examples.

I didn't know about the VR affecting it, so will disable that tonight and see if it improves things, thanks for the tip!
 
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Not dismissing it what you are saying but I think all of this is all relative. The smoothest bokeh comes form prime lenses that aren't very sharp wide open, dont have the fastest apertures and don't use aspeherical elements, but these arent typcially thr most desirable lenses.


From the first link I clicked on from your google search:
The Nikkor 24-120 f/4 also has a very "three-dimensional" look with high color saturation, and surprisingly natural transitions from in to out of focus. The bokeh is also unexpectedly pleasing for a complex zoom with aspherical elements.

That is the kind of comment that I have in mind about this lens.
Some of the other links I clicked on did explain a nervous bokeh but what I saw was the standard harsh bokeh edge from an optimally corrected lens. It looks very much like what you get from the Sigma ART f/1.4 primes.


However, Bokeh is a personal thing, if you don't like it then you will want to change lenses.
 
Yeah wouldn't worry about the bokeh - while its good you have attention to detail - drunk hungover folks will be viewing the photos - they really don't see or even understand what a good photo is (no disrespect meant to anyone)

So just get clear well framed photos and you will be fine :)
 
Yeah wouldn't worry about the bokeh - while its good you have attention to detail - drunk hungover folks will be viewing the photos - they really don't see or even understand what a good photo is (no disrespect meant to anyone)

So just get clear well framed photos and you will be fine :)

I'm not worrying about the bokeh for tonight as the scrappiness is mostly visible in daylight scenarios, but the fact is that it annoys me every time I see it, and I want to have pride and satisfaction in all of my photos, not notice niggling annoyances... even if I am the only one who is offended by it. :p
 
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Yeah wouldn't worry about the bokeh - while its good you have attention to detail - drunk hungover folks will be viewing the photos - they really don't see or even understand what a good photo is (no disrespect meant to anyone)

So just get clear well framed photos and you will be fine :)

If thats the case then they only want to see fit birds/lads and boobs:D
 
Well chaps, last night I flew in the face of advice and used only a nifty fifty... 50mm. And no flash. http://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/lenses/nikon_50_1p8

I got some amazing shots and I cannot believe how much better the lighting looks without flash killing everything!

The downside is I have 750 shots to trawl through... the upside is I now have a contact who is going into event management and is interested in using me as a paid photographer!
 
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Well chaps, last night I flew in the face of advice and used only a nifty fifty... 50mm. And no flash. http://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/lenses/nikon_50_1p8

I got some amazing shots and I cannot believe how much better the lighting looks without flash killing everything!

The downside is I have 750 shots to trawl through... the upside is I now have a contact who is going into event management and is interested in using me as a paid photographer!

Good you got good shots - if the flash was overpowering everything then you didn't use it correctly :eek:

OF COURSE a wide open lens will give you 'better shots' but I am thinking your referring to it letting in more background light so once the exposure for the people is done - you get atmospheric shots.

This can also be done better with a flash and 2nd curtain sync, im glad you got the shots but 50mm is really tight in a club!
 
As combat squirrel says, you were likely using the flash wrong.

To give you an idea I was shooting recent events at ISO 6400, f/4.0 and a bounced flash.

You want to set the aperture and ISO to expose as much of the background as you want and drop the flash power so the foreground and background are balanced. And do whatever you can to bounce the flash. If you shot at base ISO then of course the background will be a black hole.
 
As combat squirrel says, you were likely using the flash wrong.

To give you an idea I was shooting recent events at ISO 6400, f/4.0 and a bounced flash.

You want to set the aperture and ISO to expose as much of the background as you want and drop the flash power so the foreground and background are balanced. And do whatever you can to bounce the flash. If you shot at base ISO then of course the background will be a black hole.

At the last place I was using the flash on TTL, mostly bouncing off walls or ceiling. However I didn't think about the ISO, so will try that next time and see the results.

Flash vs no flash is always going to look different, hence why some people have such strong preferences either way. I'm happy to use either, but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club atmosphere, even if flash is better for close-ups of people.
 
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As combat squirrel says, you were likely using the flash wrong.

To give you an idea I was shooting recent events at ISO 6400, f/4.0 and a bounced flash.

You want to set the aperture and ISO to expose as much of the background as you want and drop the flash power so the foreground and background are balanced. And do whatever you can to bounce the flash. If you shot at base ISO then of course the background will be a black hole.

At the last place I was using the flash on TTL, mostly bouncing off walls or ceiling. However I didn't think about the ISO, so will try that next time and see the results.

Flash vs no flash is always going to look different, hence why some people have such strong preferences either way. I'm happy to use either, but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club atmosphere, even if flash is better for close-ups of people.

What DP mentions is the best approach - try that next time.

I think when you say 'but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club' - you are simply exposing correctly for the clubs ambient light which gives a nice 'atmospheric feel' - here is one from last Sat night - by no means my best but just a standard club shot, this was pretty much what D.P. is saying higher ISO and bounced flash.

club%20example-1.jpg


This place is VERY dark anyway so it was harder to get the shot - but simply exposed for the background purple tones and matched exposure with the flash to clearly shoot these ladies.
 
At the last place I was using the flash on TTL, mostly bouncing off walls or ceiling. However I didn't think about the ISO, so will try that next time and see the results.

Flash vs no flash is always going to look different, hence why some people have such strong preferences either way. I'm happy to use either, but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club atmosphere, even if flash is better for close-ups of people.


EDIY: I realize this probably sounds condescending but I don't intend that to eb the case. I'm a complete rookie myself when it comes to flash photography and ave recently even started a thread myself on it. I too originally always thought that flash photography looked artificial and preferred natural light but really when you don't have adequate natural light to work with you don't have a choice. The art of flash photography is try to mimic natural lighting, or at least make the photos balanced to the point that it looks natural. It is like HDR, most people's HDR photography is horrible, but sometimes you dal with scenes that is just not possible to capture in a single exposure. HDR done right means you will barely notice it is HDR and everything looks natural.

The difference comes down to technique, not that I know much about flashes at all. If you are good with flashes then the looks will be extremely natural.
I bet you shot at like ISO 200 and found the background dark, that is user error rather than a limit of flashes. Try to push the exposure up so you get the background balanced with the foreground, the flash is used to get a sharp image of the foreground subject with even lighting.


My worry with shooting without a flash at f/1.8 for these types of photos is the DoF will be way to thin to get the group of people properly in focus. You mentioned earlier that you had focus issues with people not being well aligned to the focal plane, even if they are perfectly aligned f/1.8 at 50mm is just not going to be sufficient. Things will look good on the LCD but when viewed in lightroom you might find much less keepers.





When people shoot fast primes wide open they tend to do it under specific scenarios, e.g. photographing the bride and you draw attention to the ring, or flowers, or eyes. There aren't other people in the photo. The exceptions are sometimes when, for example shoots, Raymond the couple with his 85mm f/1.2 wide open - he is at such a distance that the couple will mostly be in focus. Up close wide open will be very tough when photographing 2-4 people in a club.



You then have the problem of subject movement, even if you are getting 1/50s if the subject is dancing you will get a blur - a rear curtain flash will get the subject nice and sharp super imposed over a blurred subject



It seems counter intuitive to raise the ISO and use a flash at the same time but that is really a beginners mistake. You want to expose for background and use the flash to balance the subject as ell as ensurign a crisp subject even if the background get slightly soft.
 
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No worries guys, will bear all this in mind for next time, and you are right DP, I wouldn't have thought to raise the ISO when using flash, but now that I mull it over it does make perfect sense.

thanks again for all the helpful tips and advice!

Here are a couple from last night:


Maybe not tack sharp, but certainly acceptable results I think considering they will be on a website and quite small. I don't think the singer would have appreciated a flash going off so close to her anyhow.

Really may give a Tamron 24-70 another shot and get a good copy, as I really want VC as it does make a huge difference with slower shutter speeds when the subject isn't moving much (or at all).
 
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What DP mentions is the best approach - try that next time.

I think when you say 'but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club' - you are simply exposing correctly for the clubs ambient light which gives a nice 'atmospheric feel' - here is one from last Sat night - by no means my best but just a standard club shot, this was pretty much what D.P. is saying higher ISO and bounced flash.

club%20example-1.jpg


This place is VERY dark anyway so it was harder to get the shot - but simply exposed for the background purple tones and matched exposure with the flash to clearly shoot these ladies.

Was that bounced or direct? Looks a little too "front on" to be bounced yet not harsh like direct flash would be. Diffuser of some kind?
 
Good start Rich, Obviously you mentioned they are not tack sharp - this is the issue with prime lenses - you have to have a ton of practice using them as the DOF is so so shallow and the slightest movement makes it blur.

Also a reason to use flash with 2nd curtain sync is you can even be wobblier than an arthritic donkey and as soon as the flash fires you 'burn' in the 'sharp' image to the image sensor - this is how people achieve moving back grounds with sharp in focus portrait subject - depending on how much you move you will also get an 'aura' effect around the subject.
 
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