Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [16th - 24th Jan 2021]

BaZ87 said:
Adam you've lost me now. What the **** does Liverpool's form this season have to do with whether Utd replicated what Liverpool done last season?

This is bringing back memories of trying to have a debate with Frank.
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I am not talking about last season. Your original reply to Shami which is what this is all stemming from stating Fergie could produce form over multiple seasons multiple times puts him on a different level. I am showing an argument from a "pure" points perspective where he did it to a similar standard to Liverpool over the past few years. That was also done whilst getting to the Champions league final twice in three years and also winning a domestic cup.

Also during that form we went 11 games and 1,032 minutes without conceding a goal in the league alone. Will we ever see that "form" again?
 
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adam cool dude said:
I am not talking about last season. Your original reply to Shami which is what this is all stemming from stating Fergie could produce form over multiple seasons multiple times puts him on a different level. I am showing an argument from a "pure" points perspective where he did it to a similar standard to Liverpool over the past few years. That was also done whilst getting to the Champions league final twice in three years and also winning a domestic cup.
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Ok Adam, we're clearly having different discussions then because I have no idea how that relates to anything I said or the post I replied to.

Liverpool weren't getting plaudits simply because we won the League last season. The plaudits were a result of the ridiculous run we went on, one that may not be seen again. Utd never replicated that and that's not a matter of opinion. And there's really no need to get so defensive. I'm not and have not said that Fergie/Utd didn't have other great achievements, in fact I said in a post before that we might not see another side win the treble either and given the level of competition at the top now, we might not see a level of dominance in the League that we saw from Utd under Fergie or Liverpool during the 70s & 80s again too.

It's really not that controversial.
 
The problem is that Shami made a statement:
Fergie showed how to maintain that form over multiple seasons.

And you, to prove that he never did, have created an incredibly specific definition of what 'that form' must mean:
  • It must be only in the league.
  • It must be over a period of 36 games.
  • But not the actual 36 games of a full season.
And then whenever anyone tries to point out that your definition of form is a bit limited (and could be said to be designed specifically around the most positive way of describing form for your team) you are claiming that they're moving the goalposts - goalposts which apparently only you are allowed to define, because Shami certainly didn't.

I don't see how utterly unreasonable it is for Adam to use a different definition of form (which includes all games, and across full seasons).

I would argue (but then of course I would!) that his definition of form, being more holistic, and over a greater sample size, is more correct than your own.

Actually, if you want to go for small sample size - who has the best Premiership form over one game? :D ;)
 
You could also argue VAR has had a defining aspect on how points totals are made. I am sure many of the previous seasons pre VAR would have had completely different totals if you look back at them.

I cannot think of league specifics but Barcelona would have never beaten Chelsea in 09 had VAR be available.
 
bazzabear said:
The problem is that Shami made a statement:
Fergie showed how to maintain that form over multiple seasons....
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As I asked Shami, what form? Liverpool weren't being praised for anything other than their relentless winning run in the League. I didn't see anybody praising us for our FA Cup defeat. Did you?
 
BaZ87 said:
As I asked Shami, what form? Liverpool weren't being praised for anything other than their relentless winning run in the League. I didn't see anybody praising us for our FA Cup defeat. Did you?
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I was completely impartial and tried not to praise Liverpool for anything last season or the season before that.
 
fez said:
I was completely impartial and tried not to praise Liverpool for anything last season or the season before that.
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And I wouldn't expect anything other than that. I always feels weird when Utd fans praise Liverpool. And I can safely say I won't be praising anything Spawn FC do this season either, other than their CL progress :p
 
BaZ87 said:
As I asked Shami, what form? Liverpool weren't being praised for anything other than their relentless winning run in the League. I didn't see anybody praising us for our FA Cup defeat. Did you?
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No, it got glossed over rather.

I think we're coming at the same point from different directions - which is that these achievements are all amazing in their own right, and trying to distinguish between them is a bit of a mug's game.




(But United's was better. ;) )
 
Leicester also now without Vardy for a couple of weeks. Ole and the team have no excuses here to build up a buffer if the teams challenging drop points with key players out.
 
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