The astonishing thing was just how many awful decisions there were. Usually teams are whinging about 1 or perhaps 2. Brighton have good claims for 4-5 game changing poor decisions. At that point its sheer incompetence.
Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [8th - 9th April 2023]
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The astonishing thing was just how many awful decisions there were. Usually teams are whinging about 1 or perhaps 2. Brighton have good claims for 4-5 game changing poor decisions. At that point its sheer incompetence.
I think the issue with a handball is that the only question is "did it hit his hand?" - it's binary. Unlike eg fouls, where some people may think it's a foul and some not.
So if VAR reviews a goal and decides it has come off a hand, it has to rule it out - the decision to give the goal is a clear and obvious error.
I agree with you that overturning that goal was ridiculous, my issue with the video was (a) that decisions like that seem to happen every week - it's crap refereeing, but not corruption and (b) the video's attempts to call basically every standard foul a yellow card make it look absurd.
Bad officiating happens far more than it should, but it's incompetence not corruption
You are correct, it is binary but the when it goes to VAR (not VAR initiating the process as it were) for a goal the two things they are looking at is:
1. What side am I looking at i.e. what was the on field decision
2. Am I certain of my opinion.
Given there are 2 options there are 4 outcomes.
1. I agree with on field decision, I am not certain. - On field decision remains
2. I agree with on field decision, I am certain. - On field decision remains
3. I disagree with on field decision, I am not certain. - On field decision remains
4. I disagree with on field decision, I am certain. - On field decision is overturned
That means that you can kind of give them the benefit of the doubt on the first one. Thats being kind though as the defender pushes Mitoma just before he controls it which should 100% be taken into account. The second disallowed goal though, every angle we have so far shows it as either massively inconclusive or very much coming off his hip. Ref gave the goal. VAR shouldn't overturn.
You have to look at it like a court. As a juror your job isn't to have an opinion, its to look at the evidence and if its without doubt you find them guilty. You don't say " I'm pretty sure". If they see it comes off a hand then yes. Thats a clear error. If they think it might have done but aren't sure then they stick with the on field decision.
Oh I completely agree and I usually preface my posts on this topic with that. They are just bad at their jobs. Its not cheating. And yes it happens every week but I haven't seen a game where one side has been so utterly bent over by it in a long time if ever.
Soldato
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Corrected that for you
I think we're broadly in agreement. I'm still not sure on the Mitoma penalty (and yes, I know they've now "apologised"), and I think if it was given it would be called soft.
The Welbeck disallowed goal - I don't see how that's deflected downwards without coming off an arm. I can understand it not being given if VAR took a balance of probabilities approach (i.e take a look at this as though the ref hasn't seen it, and make your own mind up). As you say though, that's not what VAR should be doing, and there wasn't enough evidence there to overturn the goal.
The standard for when VAR should get involved is still too subjective, basically. What someone might call a clear and obvious error is not what someone else may call one.
The problem comes when that subjectivity is applied differently in the same match, by the same official. I don't think the Mitoma penalty or the Welbeck "goal" were clear and obvious errors, so it should have been no penalty but the goal should stand. Someone else might say penalty and no goal with equal justification.
Soldato
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you’re the only one then
Yup, an apology is totally pointless (in both senses of the word), Brighton are not a team with an enormous money pot, the points they have been deprived off by poor refereeing could be the difference between the huge financial impact of playing in Europe next season or not.
How many apologies have they had now? Is it 2 or three? That could be 6 points they have been deprived of which would take them into direct competition with United and Newcastle for top 4. They have a good team and perhaps with CL they might keep quite a lot of it. Even with EL they might. Without it they will struggle.
"Clear and obvious" doesn't even apply half the time.
If the question is, "did the ball cross a line?" (any line) or, "was the player offside?" then "clear and obvious" doesn't matter. Neither does it matter if a ref flagged incorrectly. VAR will overturn.
Now, if the question is, "Did the ball hit a hand?" then "clear and obvious" appears to come into play.
In practice, what seems to happen is that a ref is judged to have made a "clear and obvious" mistake by not giving a penalty or not disallowing a goal, when VAR believes they should have. But if the ref incorrectly gives a penalty or incorrectly disallows a goal, then "clear and obvious" leads to VAR *not* interfering (e: some of the time).
It's such a mess.
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That's quite frankly absurd.
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@omnomnom im nervous about today's game. I won't be surprised if Liverpool win
It's an easy Arsenal dub, no way Liverpool's midfield can cope with their current options.
They play a lot of long balls these days bypassing the midfield
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Leeds having a meltdown 
Soldato
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Woy doing wonders at the Palace.
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