Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [3rd - 6th May 2024]

[Reuben klang]

That's true, but it was considered a nightmare season, this is far worse.

At least Moyes’ lot had a plan, spam crosses into the box. You could actually see what he was trying to do. It was just as hilarious. That Fulham game was amazing.

Under ETH no body has a clue.

From the beeb

• This is the most defeats United have suffered in a Premier League season (13)
• United have never finished below seventh in Premier League, they are currently eighth.
• Since the start of last season, only Nottingham Forest (five) have lost more Premier League away games by a four-goal margin or higher than United (three).
• The Selhurst Park thrashing was United’s heaviest defeat of the season
• United have conceded 81 goals in all competitions this season, their most in a campaign since 1976-77 (also 81).
• They have not finished a season on a minus goal difference since the 1989-90 Division One season. They are currently on -3.
• United’s expected goals on Monday was 0.35 – their second worst of the season

 

[Nate75]

Last season this time I made the mistake of being a little optimistic.

A little as in we weren't going to win anything, but looked to be going in the right direction at least.

Won't be making that mistake this year lololol.

Absolutely no faith in ETH, and some of the players of course.

But ETH is simply clueless.

Still have no idea of the plan that he is sticking to is...

 

[CliffyG]

I might give up on football if we don't batter this United team on Sunday.

 

[Steedie]

I might give up on football if we don't batter this United team on Sunday.

You'd have thought it will be a heavy, heavy defeat for us but, I mean...it's Arsenal, let's face it, it's in your DNA to bottle it at some point so I would not be surprised in the slightest if we somehow fluke a result.

ETH can't really be blamed for last night with the injuries and having no fit centre backs, but it's surely just another nail in the coffin for him. It's not a good look his fault or not. Also, I don't often agree with Carragher, but he's absolutely right, Casemiro just needs to call it a day, he's not got it in him to play at the top level now, Saudi will have him I'm sure and he'll still get a big pay day

 

[spudbynight]

Casemiro is on huge money now. He doesn’t need to play to get that. He can sit out the rest of his contract which is another two seasons.

 

[MarcLister]

How many rebuilds is that since Fergie left?

Seeing as we haven't had a proper squad/team following a 'rebuild' then arguably none.

 

[Nate75]

Casemiro is on huge money now. He doesn’t need to play to get that. He can sit out the rest of his contract which is another two seasons.

Another 2 seasons lol.

Another transfer market master stroke!

 

[fez]

I think that Casemiro was a signing of the heart not the head. A RM legend who wasn't that old and he was a bit of a statement signing. Honestly, in the right team I think he still would be great. United aren't that team though. Hes not got the speed or energy to compensate for the mess we usually are on the pitch and now hes being asked to play CB in an even worse mess of a team.

Fingers crossed he will move on in the summer but who knows.

 

[manic111]

Seeing as we haven't had a proper squad/team following a 'rebuild' then arguably none.

Correction. Failed rebuilds.

 

[bingham67]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1787757484150489120

embarassing how many moor times are we going to see this

 

[adam cool dude]

Ten Hag looking pretty downbeat in this interview, said he prepared them the best he can, and he can't do anything else.

Kept circling back to the injuries in defence, which is fair, but the whole thing is just a mess really.

Carragher saying it how it is though - "this is one of the most poorly coached teams in the Premier League" - it's not just injuries.

You cannot coach a back 4 with a RB playing lb for the first time this season or a CDM with no legs as a rcb.

ETH should just play kids for the rest of the season tbh.

I have never seen injuries like it. Something is up.

Shaw, Martinez, Malacia, Mcsauce, Rashford, Bruno, Varane, Martial, Lindelof, Maguire.

10 Players out. There has to be something more to this!

 

[fez]

You cannot coach a back 4 with a RB playing lb for the first time this season or a CDM with no legs as a rcb.

ETH should just play kids for the rest of the season tbh.

I have never seen injuries like it. Something is up.

Shaw, Martinez, Malacia, Mcsauce, Rashford, Bruno, Varane, Martial, Lindelof, Maguire.

10 Players out. There has to be something more to this!

Shaw has always been injury prone, Martinez had a nasty injury and just got really unlucky again soon after coming back. McTominay has been available most of the season, same for Rashford, Bruno is almost never injured to the point of it being surprising when he is. Varane is injury prone, Martial is injury prone and Maguire is very reliable but eventually all players get injured.

We've had a really bad problem with defensive injuries this season but honestly, 90% of that is Martinez. If you told me Shaw and Varane would be missing for chunks of the season at the start I wouldn't have batted an eyelid. Martinez is the massive loss. You could see that our best performances of the season came when he was back briefly and how it completely changed how we defended. The energy levels and aggressiveness of our defence.

EtH has been found massively wanting but our defensive injuries have made his job much harder. Its a pretty simple case of the job being very hard but hes still not achieving par.

 

[engee]

That was horrible. I don't know why I put myself through watching them anymore. We're going backwards.
My wife walked into the room at 70 minutes and asked how I'm still watching that. I didn't have an answer.

 

[fez]

That was horrible. I don't know why I put myself through watching them anymore. We're going backwards.
My wife walked into the room at 70 minutes and asked how I'm still watching that. I didn't have an answer.

I gave up at half time. There was nothing to suggest that we were going to turn it around in the second half and it was just a miserable watch. Sometimes our games are a mess but entertaining if you can disconnect yourself from the result. Last night wasn't one of those.

 

[BaZ87]

Honestly, in the right team I think he still would be great. United aren't that team though.

Nah, he's finished. We had the same thing with Fabinho last season. Yes, what's going on around him makes things worse but the guys legs have gone. You could see it coming from the 2nd half of last season, opposition midfield's were just running over him and he couldn't do anything about it.

There were some shouts about how he could play until his late 30s like Milner etc when Utd signed him but it was never likely. I think he's naturally quite chunky but it's clear he was never this supreme athlete that took care of himself like your Milner's, Giggs' etc and 6 months of PL intensity pretty much finished him.

If I'm Utd now then I'm going straight to PIF as part of the Ashworth negotiations and paying what Newcastle want on the agreement that one of the Saudi clubs take Casemiro off your hands.

 

[HangTime]

*The only reason not to sack him now is it looks a bit clownish to replace somebody with 4 games to go.

To play devil's advocate it can also look a bit clownish to keep a dead man walking around if everyone knows he's getting sacked at the end of the season and you aren't happy with the image he's presenting, it's causing supporter unrest / toxic atmosphere or he doesn't have a good legacy (e.g. someone like Wenger, Klopp etc you'd not show them the door in May out of respect). Clearly his methods aren't working in the short term with the players he currently has at his disposal, so I'd roll the dice as you say, unless the board think his OT career is salvageable.

Of course there might be some financial implications that could influence this, e.g. he's probably got some sort of bonus for winning a trophy and/or qualifying for Europe, mathematically they can still win the FA cup and/or finish 5th, so if they sack him now they probably have to pay him more money than letting that play its course.

 

[BaZ87]

To play devil's advocate it can also look a bit clownish to keep a dead man walking around if everyone knows he's getting sacked at the end of the season and you aren't happy with the image he's presenting, it's causing supporter unrest / toxic atmosphere or he doesn't have a good legacy (e.g. someone like Wenger, Klopp etc you'd not show them the door in May out of respect). Clearly his methods aren't working in the short term with the players he currently has at his disposal, so I'd roll the dice as you say, unless the board think his OT career is salvageable.

Of course there might be some financial implications that could influence this, e.g. he's probably got some sort of bonus for winning a trophy and/or qualifying for Europe, mathematically they can still win the FA cup and/or finish 5th, so if they sack him now they probably have to pay him more money than letting that play its course.

Possibly but I think there's an acceptance that at this stage of the season you generally just wait until the season is over then put him out his misery.

You could be right regarding clauses in his contract though. I doubt there's anything significant related to winning the FA Cup but failure to qualify for Europe may impact how much Utd have to pay him when they sack him. That was the case with Moyes at Utd although I think that was specific to CL qualification.

 

[fez]

Honestly, there is a still some small part of me that thinks EtH will be here come August. I don't know. I think that given the right sort of player and set up he would do well. Hes shown he can at Ajax. I think the new management will be looking at things far more long term and trying to make the manager just another cog in the machine so it will depend on what sort of football they decide we should be playing and if EtH can do it.

Even in a best case scenario we aren't going to make more than £150m from sales and if we do that we will have to replace quite a few players. Interesting summer ahead.

 

[BaZ87]

I hope you're right but I'd be amazed. As you say the new ownership will have their own ideas and it's just generally unlikely that ETH (or any sitting manager) will match up with what they want moving forwards. Throw in the fact that he's done terribly and Ineos have shown they'll sack managers for fun at Nice and I just can't see a scenario where he's not sacked.

 

[Calpol]

Honestly, there is a still some small part of me that thinks EtH will be here come August. I don't know. I think that given the right sort of player and set up he would do well. Hes shown he can at Ajax. I think the new management will be looking at things far more long term and trying to make the manager just another cog in the machine so it will depend on what sort of football they decide we should be playing and if EtH can do it.

Even in a best case scenario we aren't going to make more than £150m from sales and if we do that we will have to replace quite a few players. Interesting summer ahead.

The GNev interview last week was warming us up for that I'm sure. It was a club ploy to ease some of the pressure and signal that he may well be safe. Last night will have had an impact as it was so bad but I suspect the outcome is very nuanced. If they can have a clear out of the deadwood (Martial, vdB, Greenwood, Sancho, Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane, AWB, Williams, Evans, Lindelof, Rashford) then I think they might give him another season. However, I think it's unlikely they can do that in one window which leaves you with a motivation problem and one that can only be resolved (temporarily) with a new manager.

I hope you're right but I'd be amazed. As you say the new ownership will have their own ideas and it's just generally unlikely that ETH (or any sitting manager) will match up with what they want moving forwards. Throw in the fact that he's done terribly and Ineos have shown they'll sack managers for fun at Nice and I just can't see a scenario where he's not sacked.

Tbh he's done nothing since Ineos arrived to demonstrate that he's worth another chance. Injuries aside and he has to take some responsibility for that situation, this is the worst season in 30 years on almost every stat you care to look at. It's abject. The big question is who replaces him? There is not exactly a huge candidate list and why would anyone want to come to this mess.