Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [15 - 17th December 2012]

[Jano]

Was there last night supporting/laughing at Reading. Interesting take on a few things by people here.

Defence isn't the problem when most of them are fit. Cummings was atrocious last night however which did make things look bad. The real issue however isn't there, it's in midfield. If there has been a player in the premiership worse than legsofwood I've not seen one. The kids that came on at half time had better ball control than that lump of uselessness. Kebe is out with a runny nose too often. McAnuff isn't much better. Tabb tries hard but he's also not prem class. None of the midfield offer any protection to the defence at all.

Pog is getting slated by Reading fans but it really isn't his fault. He's not a target man and all he's getting is legsofwoods hoofs and scrappy little balls when what he really wants is a pass to feet. On the odd occasion he gets this he looks heads and shoulders above every other player in the team.

 

[CliffyG]

Aside from our defensive frailties which were still evident i thought there was a marked improvement going forwards last night. We actually created chances, were more direct and attacked with speed. Thought Walcott did ok up front, looked lively, always offered himself for the ball and took his goal well, he should have scored the 1 on 1 though really. Once we got the 3rd goal we just went back to training game mode though and the substitutions completely stopped the flow of the game. This was against reading though so will be interested to see how this lineup plays for the next few games.

 

[One More Solo]

So should I be happy we thrashed a team that didn't try to play any football for 45mins, or worried as hell that they "won" the second half with more Arsenal defensive mistakes and that the bottom of the league team, when they actually passed, put us under so much pressure?

I love how you are so negative that you even turn the drawn second half into a defeat for Arsenal. Games are only won and lost based on how many goals are scored, there isn't "winning" and "losing".

 

[K1LLSW1TCH]

I'm sure last night I heard Neville say that our defence is statistically within the top 10 defences in Europe this season, surely that can't be right.

 

[Tummy]

Who are the other 9?

Also; I'm sure Manchester United are in that top 10 above Arsenal

 

[Yas786]

I love how you are so negative that you even turn the drawn second half into a defeat for Arsenal. Games are only won and lost based on how many goals are scored, there isn't "winning" and "losing".

LOL with DM even if we won the EPL and everything else, he would no doubt be negative or would find a reason to be negative.

Saying that, beating Reading isnt that great an achievement. So its hard for me to get all that excited. Sure we scored 5 goals but id like us to do that against the better teams in the table.

We got Wigan this weekend so will be interesting to see how we do against them. For the past few yrs they have managed to do us over, so hoping we put that right and smash a good few goals against them.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Who are the other 9?

Also; I'm sure Manchester United are in that top 10 above Arsenal

they won't be most likely, because it will be mostly done on something simple like goals conceded. We have THE worst record of conceding goals down to individual errors afaik, across Europe, but we haven't actually conceded loads of goals.

For instance Reading just sucked balls for all their goals, Gibbs made a woeful error that gifted them a goal, or the Athletico defender doing a back heel inside his box, with Messi standing behind him, leading directly to a goal. But we haven't actually conceded a ridiculous number of goals, Utd have conceded 24 to our 18. But, it depends on the games, it depends on injuries, it depends on many things. Utd for instance have rarely put out the same team in central midfield(crucial to defensive cover) nor at defence due to constantly changing CB's. Arsenal have actually had a fairly settled defence by comparison and central midfield also. We've only conceded a few more than City. But is a defence judgeable only by goals conceded, and only in under half a season? To some people yes, to others not a chance. IE I forget the stat, I think the league average was 15-20% of goals come from individual errors, most are the other team just doing well. Arsenal's percentage of goals from individual errors was above 60%, and embarrassing.

Does the fact that in 2 of the past three seasons we've conceded 50% more goals than Utd in the league suggest that the quality, tactics/system is there for Utd to simply be the far better defence. For half a season we've conceded less, and for the previous 3 seasons we've conceded WAY more. By the end of the season we could have conceded 50% more than Utd, or the same, or maybe even less.

However Utd have been dog turd in defence this year, even then the real question is... who cares about defence, honestly? The meanest defence in the league is..... STOKE, are we aspiring to be Stoke, or are people just latching on to a stat Arsenal look good in that means nothing.

Utd have conceded 33% more goals than us.... and won 100% more games than us. Which would Arsenal fans prefer, 18 goals conceded, 7 wins, or 24 goals conceded and 14 wins?


I'm happy when Arsenal play well, I'm happier when we play well against a good team, I'm really happy if we play well against a good team that for whatever reason didn't have a player sent off, do something completely stupid, forget how to play football. But beating a bottom 3 team... after a run of poor losses/draws against decent teams and not managing even 90 minutes with mistakes, and being outplayed in parts by a rubbish team, I wasn't happy, nor sad, beating a truly awful team really isn't particularly positive. We've beaten bottom 3 teams by huge goal lines before, we've looked better doing it, we've done it without the stupid mistakes, and we've done it while being able to beat any other team around as well. Ultimately I'm happiest when Arsenal show some signs of consistent improvement... I've not seen that for 8 years. If other Arsenal fans were also unhappy, Wenger would have been removed at least 4 years ago, we'd have a better, more profitable team right now and likely be challenging for cups(realistically).

 

[Pighardia]

I suppose a draw wasn't a bad result tonight, especially after going 2-0 down, but we really need to start winning these home games! ...to be fair though the first half performance was the worst I have seen us play so far this season. Second half after Lua-Lua came on though we were a different team. He needs to start more games as quickly as possible...he totally changed the game and they couldn't handle him!

 

[Snax]

they won't be most likely, because it will be mostly done on something simple like goals conceded. We have THE worst record of conceding goals down to individual errors afaik, across Europe, but we haven't actually conceded loads of goals.

For instance Reading just sucked balls for all their goals, Gibbs made a woeful error that gifted them a goal, or the Athletico defender doing a back heel inside his box, with Messi standing behind him, leading directly to a goal. But we haven't actually conceded a ridiculous number of goals, Utd have conceded 24 to our 18. But, it depends on the games, it depends on injuries, it depends on many things. Utd for instance have rarely put out the same team in central midfield(crucial to defensive cover) nor at defence due to constantly changing CB's. Arsenal have actually had a fairly settled defence by comparison and central midfield also. We've only conceded a few more than City. But is a defence judgeable only by goals conceded, and only in under half a season? To some people yes, to others not a chance. IE I forget the stat, I think the league average was 15-20% of goals come from individual errors, most are the other team just doing well. Arsenal's percentage of goals from individual errors was above 60%, and embarrassing.

Does the fact that in 2 of the past three seasons we've conceded 50% more goals than Utd in the league suggest that the quality, tactics/system is there for Utd to simply be the far better defence. For half a season we've conceded less, and for the previous 3 seasons we've conceded WAY more. By the end of the season we could have conceded 50% more than Utd, or the same, or maybe even less.

However Utd have been dog turd in defence this year, even then the real question is... who cares about defence, honestly? The meanest defence in the league is..... STOKE, are we aspiring to be Stoke, or are people just latching on to a stat Arsenal look good in that means nothing.

Utd have conceded 33% more goals than us.... and won 100% more games than us. Which would Arsenal fans prefer, 18 goals conceded, 7 wins, or 24 goals conceded and 14 wins?


I'm happy when Arsenal play well, I'm happier when we play well against a good team, I'm really happy if we play well against a good team that for whatever reason didn't have a player sent off, do something completely stupid, forget how to play football. But beating a bottom 3 team... after a run of poor losses/draws against decent teams and not managing even 90 minutes with mistakes, and being outplayed in parts by a rubbish team, I wasn't happy, nor sad, beating a truly awful team really isn't particularly positive. We've beaten bottom 3 teams by huge goal lines before, we've looked better doing it, we've done it without the stupid mistakes, and we've done it while being able to beat any other team around as well. Ultimately I'm happiest when Arsenal show some signs of consistent improvement... I've not seen that for 8 years. If other Arsenal fans were also unhappy, Wenger would have been removed at least 4 years ago, we'd have a better, more profitable team right now and likely be challenging for cups(realistically).

Good analysis except for the bit about being better without Wenger. You cannot say that as a fact as it is pure conjecture that his successor would have brought more success.