Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [27th Jan - 1st Feb 2012]

Hasn't reina had more howlers than de gea this season? Don't here people calling for his head. I think some, like Nickg, wanted de gea to fail for some reason from the start, so any problem would be jumped upon.
 
elmuzzy66. said:
Hasn't reina had more howlers than de gea this season? Don't here people calling for his head. I think some, like Nickg, wanted de gea to fail for some reason from the start, so any problem would be jumped upon.
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Basically, I remember PLENTY of howlers from VDS, I'm fairly sure last year he had one of those easy saves that should be collected easily but somehow slips out of grasp and trickles over the line.

All keepers make howlers, De Gea has made very few this season, every time he doesn't win something people make a huge deal about it. I can't actually easily remember the position for the was it Agger goal but, wasn't there 2-3 pool players and 3-4 Utd defenders and De gea "isn't built" to bash them all over and get to it first.

But what keeper is, and keepers can indeed foul. Smashing into a crowd of 6+ players to win the ball is something you see NO keepers doing. There are times keepers can get a run get there first and everyone gets to the same point but from what I remember all the defenders were essentially there first.

Defence can't handle Agger, De gea's fault, Kuyt wins a one on one where the outcome is usually 99% down to the striker(either goal or misses it like a tard), De Gea's fault. Makes WAY more saves with a much worse defence, De Gea's fault, concede less goals per game...... its all De gea's fault. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
For the first goal, De Gea was a quite a way off his line pushing Andy Carroll instead of focusing on the ball and standing on his line (he was never, ever going to catch it). It narrowly went over his head so had he not been leaning forward pushing Carroll it would have most definitely hit him and perhaps not gone in.

The Kuyt goal was just one of those things though, you make yourself big and hope it hits you. Not much he could have done differently.

My concerns mainly come from the fact he seems fairly short (definitely not 6'4") and it will take a while for him to bulk up and become stronger. Someone mentioned earlier about Reina being told to punch everything - that isn't a bad idea.

The only VDS howler I can remember last season was when he dropped a simple catch against West Brom I think it was. I thought he could have done better in the CL final though.
 
You dismiss nzogbia but then in a season where we have had to play rafael and jones in midfield, who knows what it could have been like with more reinforcements and nzog is starting to come good now for villa.

I didnt want De Gea to fail, its not like i have influenced that in any way. But i couldnt understand why after VDS we would be willing to go into the unknown with such a young keeper from another league, i knew that was a mistake and after the pre VDS era debacle you;'d have thought that some lessons would ahve been learnt.
 
FrankJH said:
So he should get special treatment - any other player is dropped if their performances arent up to scratch, why should the g/k be any different? Look how Pogba had to wait to get another game after the CC shambles ( I believe he has been fully fit the whole time).
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Of course a keeper should get special treatment, it's a specialist position. As an outfield player you get dropped if you're of a poor standard throughout a game not for just one misplaced pass as a keeper you make one mistake and 9 times out of 10 and it results in a goal. Should you get dropped for making one mistake in a game (as De Gea did against Blackburn)? The best thing about De Gea was early on he didn't let mistakes effect him what Fergie's managed to do is seemingly break that confidence by dropping him

FrankJH said:
Better De Gea gets used to not playing every game now, than letting /making him play nearly every game this season and then when he is dropped the affect could be far worse (confidence wise)
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That makes zero sense. So you're saying we keep faith with him now (which we should be) and then should we drop him in the future it'll be worse for him? How do you come to that conclusion? Not to mention why would we drop him in this hypothetical future if we're keeping faith with him now? :confused:
 
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Pigeon_Killer said:
No! :o

People only highlight them more because they're such a rarity. People expect De Gea to make mistakes.
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Reina's cost Liverpool 3 goals this season and all 3 goals led to dropped points (2 defeats). And the 2 that led to defeats were genuine howlers (as oppose to people pointing the blame on De Gea for getting crowed out in a penalty box). The reason they don't get highlighted though is because he's proven. Reina got exactly the same treatment that De Gea is getting now, people forget how much of a calamity Reina was in his early days at Liverpool.
 
The Running Man said:
You dismiss nzogbia but then in a season where we have had to play rafael and jones in midfield, who knows what it could have been like with more reinforcements and nzog is starting to come good now for villa.
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Rafael played 45 minutes in midfield so your point as usual is pointless

As for Jones as I need to keep reminding you he played midfield for both Blackburn and England before he started playing there regularly for United.
 
Tom84 said:
Reina got exactly the same treatment that De Gea is getting now, people forget how much of a calamity Reina was in his early days at Liverpool.
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Reina was far from the keeper he is now in his first season but he was nothing like De Gea either. All keepers make the odd mistake but as Pigeon says, it's a lot more than the odd mistake with De Gea.

I've mentioned before that people only pick up on keepers mistakes when they're actually punished and for all the talk of De Gea being at fault for our 2 goals in the FA Cup, he made far bigger mistakes that day. He dropped 2 crosses while totally unchallenged and was fortunate that neither fell to a Liverpool player and he attempted a suicide pass to Evra which Downing cut out inside the area and had he taken control of it, he'd have had an easy chance to score.
 
Tom84 said:
Of course a keeper should get special treatment, it's a specialist position. As an outfield player you get dropped if you're of a poor standard throughout a game not for just one misplaced pass as a keeper you make one mistake and 9 times out of 10 and it results in a goal. Should you get dropped for making one mistake in a game (as De Gea did against Blackburn)? The best thing about De Gea was early on he didn't let mistakes effect him what Fergie's managed to do is seemingly break that confidence by dropping him:
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Every position is specialist, whether its centre half , winger or a striker - depends on the player as to whether they are adaptable or not to a new position (temporarily - like Carrick at centre-half - or permanently- like Giggs in CM)


Tom84 said:
That makes zero sense. So you're saying we keep faith with him now (which we should be) and then should we drop him in the future it'll be worse for him? How do you come to that conclusion? Not to mention why would we drop him in this hypothetical future if we're keeping faith with him now? :confused:
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It makes a lot of sense

For right or wrong De Gea is going to continue making mistakes - its the nature of the beast when getting used to a new team in a new league - and therefore the pressure is going to get more and more the longer run of continuous games he gets. (which to most people would make the liklihood of more mistakes increase)


At some point De Gea has to get rested, whether you are Schmeichel, VDS or whoever, they still got rested (and the longer continueous run he gets, the need for a longer rest is also important, especially with a young inexperienced keeper), does SAF then let Lindegaard play until he makes a mistake, or shatter his confidence (when he hasnt done anything wrong) just to bring back De Gea ...who might or might not make more mistakes (and therefore have two senior gk's with no confidence)

There is a chance that if one or the other had a long run of games, after being rested for a few games, their form could go back to how it was at the beginning of the long run (or worse) because they are out of their stride because of the rest period and it takes time to get the sharpness back
 
FrankJH said:
It makes a lot of sense
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No it doesn't. You rest a player for a game and then you bring him back in and thus the understudy knows that he's only filling in regardless of how well he plays. VDS was never rested for longer than 2 games on the trot. I don't see how you've come up with this notion that had DDG played every game up till now and then was rested for 2 games that would have done anything to his confidence.

And again you're wrong on the first part, not every position in a team is specialist whatsoever; you have 4 defenders, 4 midfielders & 2 strikers or another way of looking at it is 2 full backs, 2 centre halves, 2 wide players, 2 strikers in both examples though you always only have 1 keeper. Make a mistake as a defender you've got at least 3 others that could bail you out, make a mistake as a midfielder you've got potentially up to 8 players who can bail you out, make a mistake as a keeper and you're screwed. You wouldn't drop a midfielder or a defender if they make one mistake that costs a goal yet keepers get dropped for doing the exact same. I shouldn't really need to spell this stuff out it's fairly obvious. So going back to your original post yes Keepers should get special treatment.
 
BaZ87 said:
Reina was far from the keeper he is now in his first season but he was nothing like De Gea either. All keepers make the odd mistake but as Pigeon says, it's a lot more than the odd mistake with De Gea.
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I'm not sure if there's a point that you're trying to make here?
 
BaZ87 said:
That Reina wasn't a calamity as you suggested.
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Well he was, back then he certainly wasn't at the same standard as Cech who's the same age as him. Pigeon said people expect De Gea to make mistakes at the moment and the exact same was the case with Reina back in the day.

Fact is though Liverpool stuck with Reina and now he's one of the best, seems everyone is writing De Gea off though :confused:
 
He wasn't the same standard of Cech, no, but he wasn't making regular mistakes like you're implying though.

People are expecting De Gea to make mistakes because he's making a lot more than the odd mistake. In the Liverpool game alone he made more than the odd mistake.

edit: As for Utd not sticking with him and people writing him off. I certainly think that Ferguson's keeper rotation hasn't helped but it's now got to a stage where he looks completely shot of confidence. He wasn't just making poor decisions from crosses, he was dropping easy crosses while unchallenged and playing suicidal passes.

Long term, the injury to the other lad might be a blessing in disguise but right now it's a serious worry because he looks like he could cost you a goal at any minute.
 
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