Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [29th Sept - 3rd Oct 2012]
- Thread starter Cosimo
- Start date
Astonishing that some sections of the masses don't think there is a Man Utd bias within the FA.
Did you know the referee for the Liverpool - Man Utd game was at the same table as fergie 2 days before the game at a charity dinner
I don't disagree but I also think there is more to it then that.
Media connections; especially at Sky where you have Jamie Redknapp who has always been very (overly so) critical of (to a laughable extent at times) of him [AVB], it could have something to do with the car crash at Chelsea (Including AVB v Lampard) and with AVB replacing Jamie's dad as manager of Tottenham.
'ol 'Arry himself has been critical too, on match of the day he mentioned that Spurs had a top four side and should definately finish there. Given the Redknapps links to the media ('Arry has and is given an easy ride in the media) it wouldn't surprise me that AVB has just rubbed an influential group of people the wrong way.
I agree, why I mentioned the falling out at Chelsea. Lampard could have had an influence on Jamie's opinion of him.
I like AVB
Once again credit to the late, great Sir Bobby in his development
Source?
I've also read that Lee Mason was a United season ticket holder and the god awful referee that he is took charge of a few of our matches, mind you I simply cannot believe that is true, as when googling it he is also apparently a Bolton season ticket holder.
Someone needs to do research from both sides of the arguments and present facts, it would seem people are just making up stuff, misquoting as DM proved (I take his quote from wiki is accurate, not arsed checking it myself.). Personally just believe there is intimidation due to Ferguson's stature and Man United's, turn against them and you're going to have a rough time and it is played on well
the lampard thing is something i can't quite understand.
maybe AVB did himself no favours with his attitude towards the old guard but that's what he was instructed by roman to do?
he didn't get off to a particularly bad start tbh, wasn't his first loss to united? hardly a disaster.
it would seem that RDM has gotten the message through to lampard that he needs to reduce his apps. 1. to give the new signings a (deserved) chance and 2. to prolong his career. if lampard didn't have such an ego, he should've understood this under AVB. though AVB's attitude probably didn't help but he was given a mammoth task by easing out certain players.
lampard is a great player, there's no question over that but he needs to understand that he can't play forever and roman wanted more pace, which the likes of mata, hazard, oscar etc will give.
i was unsure of AVB, i still kind of am. some of his early choices (though tbf, this was before we had dembele) puzzled me; livermore and sandro, at home against norwich?
his insistence with gallas puzzles me too. he oftens plays important parts and we are missing kaboul and playing vert at lb so i understand his predicament but dawson is quicker than gallas but does this make him a better option? i'm not so sure. i'd like to see a pairing of vert and kaboul/caulker and keep gallas for the cup games.
rumours of upset over double training sessions were quashed by caulker last week and we do seem to be reaping the rewards of whatever training method he is using. whether we'll be nackered by mid jan remains to be seen.
it's also good to see him taking our euro games seriously but i fear we don't have the depth to compete at both.
maybe AVB did himself no favours with his attitude towards the old guard but that's what he was instructed by roman to do?
he didn't get off to a particularly bad start tbh, wasn't his first loss to united? hardly a disaster.
it would seem that RDM has gotten the message through to lampard that he needs to reduce his apps. 1. to give the new signings a (deserved) chance and 2. to prolong his career. if lampard didn't have such an ego, he should've understood this under AVB. though AVB's attitude probably didn't help but he was given a mammoth task by easing out certain players.
lampard is a great player, there's no question over that but he needs to understand that he can't play forever and roman wanted more pace, which the likes of mata, hazard, oscar etc will give.
i was unsure of AVB, i still kind of am. some of his early choices (though tbf, this was before we had dembele) puzzled me; livermore and sandro, at home against norwich?
his insistence with gallas puzzles me too. he oftens plays important parts and we are missing kaboul and playing vert at lb so i understand his predicament but dawson is quicker than gallas but does this make him a better option? i'm not so sure. i'd like to see a pairing of vert and kaboul/caulker and keep gallas for the cup games.
rumours of upset over double training sessions were quashed by caulker last week and we do seem to be reaping the rewards of whatever training method he is using. whether we'll be nackered by mid jan remains to be seen.
it's also good to see him taking our euro games seriously but i fear we don't have the depth to compete at both.
Did Roman instruct him to drop Lampard? Either way I can see why he would.
AVB did better than RDM in the league did he not? Left them in the CL and Fa Cup which they won (somehow).
And if his first loss was to Man United only one man to blame, Torres
AVB did better than RDM in the league did he not? Left them in the CL and Fa Cup which they won (somehow).
And if his first loss was to Man United only one man to blame, Torres
Bournemouth have sacked their manager, only been a couple of weeks since they brought 'Arry in as an advisor... Wonder who will be their next manager
Woo! We can see the saggy face under perform in a whole new and embarrassing way
One of the football podcasts I listen too.
Of course there is intimidation, when you've been in power for as long as Fergie has you're bound to build up contacts etc so to speak. Everyone in the media knows how he operates, they all sit there chuckling about it. You only have to watch that sky journo show on sundays to know that.
roman wanted a new, more attacking, faster style of play and part of AVB's project was for him to get rid of certain 'older' players.
there's no doubt he made a pigs ear of it with his treatment of some players but he was fighting a losing battle from the word go with the terry and lampard ''we're chelsea til we die. who the hell does this bloke think he is'' mentality.
them winning the CL and fa cup makes it look like a wise decision and maybe it was? but AVB lost the dressing room very quickly, any manager could've stepped in afterwards and got the players playing again, just had to say the right things to them and not do what roman wanted. the plan worked, there's no denying that but it was harsh on AVB. not that anyone at chelsea cares.
there's no doubt he made a pigs ear of it with his treatment of some players but he was fighting a losing battle from the word go with the terry and lampard ''we're chelsea til we die. who the hell does this bloke think he is'' mentality.
them winning the CL and fa cup makes it look like a wise decision and maybe it was? but AVB lost the dressing room very quickly, any manager could've stepped in afterwards and got the players playing again, just had to say the right things to them and not do what roman wanted. the plan worked, there's no denying that but it was harsh on AVB. not that anyone at chelsea cares.
This is an interesting read for those who always bang on about "fergie time"
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,,12038_8130833,00.html
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,,12038_8130833,00.html
Like I said before, people not looking at both sides.
It could easily be interpreted that MOST of the time United don't need the injury time as they are already ahead because they are a good team. What is more interesting is how much injury time they get compared to others when they are behind/level
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/sep/22/manchester-united-goals-stoppage-time
Just noticed that articles from Daniel Taylor too who is usually pretty damn awful
Again, without ALL the factors taken into account, you can make any stat mean anything.
Usually united, if they are losing a game at home, loose the game fairly early in the match, first half headers, or pens, getting a player sent off and that kind of nonsense, I would say, from memory if united are drawing or loosing at home, they've lost it fairly early, or gone behind fairly early and the other team has camped in its own half and started wasting time.
Meaning there will be a lot of time to add on.
Again, without digging up every loss or draw and looking at the times of goals scored, I couldnt back that up.
I will admit the Man city game at home that year was stupid amounts of added time.
Usually united, if they are losing a game at home, loose the game fairly early in the match, first half headers, or pens, getting a player sent off and that kind of nonsense, I would say, from memory if united are drawing or loosing at home, they've lost it fairly early, or gone behind fairly early and the other team has camped in its own half and started wasting time.
Meaning there will be a lot of time to add on.
Again, without digging up every loss or draw and looking at the times of goals scored, I couldnt back that up.
I will admit the Man city game at home that year was stupid amounts of added time.
Caporegime
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It's quite funny that you quote an article about media disliking AVB, yet take the same media as true on the idea that Roman wanted rid of the "old guard", a term completely cooked up by the media. The MEDIA pushed some agenda a couple years ago banging on about anyone over 30 being over the hill and the fans obliged by instantly jumping on board and wanting anyone even remotely old gone straight away.
Where did Roman quote he wanted a faster team? Roman's intention from the start from anything that can be gleamed was, pretty football, and Mourinho's overly defensive and also then failing football got him fired. The media wanted Terry, Lampard and Cole to not be the main players for England or Chelsea, but I've yet to see Roman suggest the same at all.
People still want to make AVB going about Lampard being dropped, or the old guard refusing to let him take control and none of that gels with anything else.
AVB started playing with a high line, it failed, they looked poor and it exposed all the weaknesses in the team, however, that high line would pretty much have failed at any team, it was a poor tactic that Porto and someone like Barca can get away with. Barca because they have all the ball and teams generally afraid to attack them while the employed that tactic made it viable. The EPL and slower CB's and that didn't work at all.
The football got worse under AVB, almost straight away, he fired players at random and it was by all accounts, how he treated everyone that lost him the teams support and his crap tactics and no team support led to dropping down the table and him losing his job.
From that AVB article
The problem with the press is, you have two sides, who are usually both as stupid as each other. But you also have fans who usually have polarised opinions and when everyone hates on AVB, and people comment on it, another reporter can do a "but I love AVB" report, and get the "other" side of fans to agree with him. There is no middle in fan opinion anymore and so the press cater to both extremes. They write what people want to hear, not the truth, not anything interesting.
He's successful, monetarily, maybe, the press installed him as one of the best managers of a generation off winning a league and competition most of Europe doesn't care or try for. His success was manufactured by the press, and followed, he's done well at an easy job, and failed at another. He's charming? Because he's got a gravelly voice and is young and better looking that Redknapp, okay, bright eye'd and intelligent, who says. Methods are evolving all the time, actually his insistence on using the only tactic he knew at Porto on a completely different team is what led to him failing, he didn't know another tactic. Nothing in his achievements suggests he could be a good manager. He, in a one horse league, won, something plenty of bad managers have done, he also won the backup Europa cup, which was promptly won the very next season by the next team Falcao scored eleventy billion goals for.
He rode the wave of success Falcao brought him and was found wanting at Chelsea.
He could end up great, he could end up terrible, the media's coverage of him is basically two sides of whatever the fans want to hear.
First it was "he won something Mourinho won at the same team Mourinho won him... theres a story there, lets call him the new Mourinho".... went to Chelsea and had the gall to fail and make the reporters look stupid for claiming he was the new Mourinho, so they turned on him.
Long story short, media are gash, AVB's done nothing, who knows what he'll do in the future. I don't like him because every single thing he did at Chelsea displayed a huge case of little big man syndrome. The "gotta fire two people just to prove a point" is something managers in any industry do, when they are almost always bad managers and almost all of those were tiny men who wanted to prove how big they were to their staff, I HATE people like that.
so why then, has he sacked so many managers?
does he watch chelsea play with his deadpan face and have U2's ''but i still haven't found, what i'm looking for'' chorus line banging inside his head?
roman wanted something new and didn't like it. standard.
Because they all failed to get him ol big ears, the one manger that didn't is still in a job despite an abysmal league campaign and atrocious football
well there are significant other differences also
1) Not a "big" signing - manager wise, with no big ego to go with it (although RDM has good/great Chelsea history as a player, he cant really be described as a big signing). Therefore things may not get so much under his skin when things are ordered from above
2) How many of the "new" signings are actually his choice are up for debate. Especially the expensive ones. Obviously they are working well now - but what happens if /when they lose form? Will he still be asked to play them?
Two of the most prominant reasons why the last few managers have left - and both heavily related to each other too. Made it a lot easier to keep him in the summer (esp with the older players in the changing rooms knowing him well from before he was appointed manager) and not chase The Big Signing (apart from the CL win)