Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [29th Sept - 3rd Oct 2012]

Seems the FA have taken Fergie's comments on board and have demoted Chris Foy to League 2 for the first time since 2006. Previous weekend Fergie was moaning about never being awarded a penalty at Anfield...
 
Oh Fergie needs to grow up and stop whinging, nonsense like his moaning about added time is just pathetic from a manager who has achieved so much.

L2 could do with a few big name refs though...
 
Seems the FA have taken Fergie's comments on board and have demoted Chris Foy to League 2 for the first time since 2006. Previous weekend Fergie was moaning about never being awarded a penalty at Anfield...

Apart from arm chair supporters it seems a lot of people actually in the game agree with his comments about the injury time situation
 
Apart from arm chair supporters it seems a lot of people actually in the game agree with his comments about the injury time situation

would that be the situation where he couldn't wait for the first half to end (motd shows him checking his watch - as a sub point, he's also not in his technical area when he's shown doing it and was asked on more than one occassion to return to his technical area, seeing as he's the one who wanted to get technical) and then moaned about there not being enough time in the second to motd too, by essentially saying it meant united weren't given a fair crack at the game?

i thought people were supposed to grow gracious in defeat as they got older?
 
Dunno you'll have to ask said people in the game that know what they're talking about ;)

just seems a lame excuse to me. united scored their 2nd goal in the 53rd minute. that's nearly 40 minutes they had to get another and they didn't. simple as that.
 
Seems the FA have taken Fergie's comments on board and have demoted Chris Foy to League 2 for the first time since 2006. Previous weekend Fergie was moaning about never being awarded a penalty at Anfield...

Interesting read below though nothing we didn't know before.



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http://diminbeirut.typepad.com/

The Truth is Out There

Oliver Stone once said: “Paranoia is having all the facts”. Many of us die hard football fans know exactly what he means.

I've long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football.

I’m not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I'm downright skeptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, and media or football institutions. It's not me being paranoid either: week after week, I’m proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise).

When it comes to football, it's not even lack of trust. It's plain common sense.

In recent years, we've had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain's second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc...

Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean.

Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize monies in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long?

To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for 2 of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country's institutions. To them, it’s entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but it’s impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicenter of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England.

I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP's expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all...) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too?

I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefits from refereeing decisions. I don’t need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off.

I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Ferguson’s father’s friend Tony Pullis, also recalled their loan players from PNE.

The message was clear: Mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished.

And not just from Mr Ferguson either. By his friends in football.

Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that “The FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the past”.

Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games. Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of.

The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deem to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). It’s a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignement led to the Juventus scandal in 2006.

Winter’s comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United 2 biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so.

Alain Wiley refereed United’s 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained.

Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being “fat and unfit”. The game ended 2-2.

That would be the end of Wiley’s refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, “agreed to retire” at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows.

Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul.

There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one.

It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision.
The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: he’s been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City.

Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage.

So in closing, let’s resume what we’ve discovered. We have an ex premier league referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said referee’s words, don’t hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized.

We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and “agreed to retire” a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasn’t been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago.

Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Ferguson’s team.

Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Allistair Campbell’s diaries if you don’t believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into.

But yet, nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes United’s way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance.

In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In "so much cleaner than everywhere else" England, we’re paranoid.

Why is that?

Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdoch’s Sky live off the premier league. So do his other publications like the Sun. The English media’s last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows.

Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cow’s biggest cash cow, would also be devastating.

So it’s all swept under the tabled and every refereeing decision shrugged off. “They even themselves out” we’re told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection.

God knows what would happen to them if they investigate United’s behind the scenes dealings.

Maybe, like Preston, they’ll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too
 
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Sounds like DM :p

It's DM crossed with an amazing mix of paranoia and too much coffee... :D

On the other hand United to get a lions share of naff 50/50's, bit different to statistically proven to be handed every game.

Fergie will retire in a few years so it'll be fine, plus the firing his son stuff is just funny as everyone could see why the loans went there, shame Peterborough haven't benefited since
 
Why ask someone in the game when we have the endless fountain of knowledge that is Tom84

Compared to you I can understand why you think I am a fountain of knowledge but alas there are those who are far more wise than me. Not on this forum of course but out there somewhere.
 
Oh Fergie needs to grow up and stop whinging, nonsense like his moaning about added time is just pathetic from a manager who has achieved so much.

L2 could do with a few big name refs though...

Believe it or not, Fergie knows what he is doing. He moaned about the added time so that people would talk about him moaning instead of talking about how bad his side is playing and how they lost to a team that UTD nearly always beat no matter if they give them a 3 goal head start.
 
Believe it or not, Fergie knows what he is doing. He moaned about the added time so that people would talk about him moaning instead of talking about how bad his side is playing and how they lost to a team that UTD nearly always beat no matter if they give them a 3 goal head start.

Yeah he could just do it in a more sensible fashion, most managers come in one of two forms, either the whinge bag fergie mould that normally get massive bans/fines to doing stuff like this, or the subtle mould that come up with criticisms but don't base their conferences on them (Adkins does this for us).

Just bored the FA haven't turned around and played their usual card of RESPECT THE REF'S OR ELSE.
 
Yeah he could just do it in a more sensible fashion, most managers come in one of two forms, either the whinge bag fergie mould that normally get massive bans/fines to doing stuff like this, or the subtle mould that come up with criticisms but don't base their conferences on them (Adkins does this for us).

Just bored the FA haven't turned around and played their usual card of RESPECT THE REF'S OR ELSE.

I'm pretty sure Fergie gets a ban every season for moaning doesn't he? Probably just wasn't deemed quite bad enough this time round lol.
 
He jumps on the idea that they don't like to put ref's in that Fergie has criticised and assumed that to be a unique situation.

Surely ref's get protection, if a particular ref gives a red card against say, Stoke, and Pulis criticises him, then the fans start to hate that particular ref, doesn't it make sense to put in a more neutral seeming ref. Which goes to supposed that managers, and fans can potentially have ref's removed.

IF a bunch of Stoke fans annonymously send death threats to "ref X" then, surely the ref shouldn't be assigned to ref stoke games.

Fergie has a lot of sway, anyone in a job for longer will do, that is natural in any industry/job. But he's adding 1+1 and coming up with 3.

The kicker being


From Wiley's wiki page, last updated several months BEFORE he wrote this piece.

Wiley officiated the match between Manchester United and Liverpool at Old Trafford on 14 March 2009, in which he awarded two penalty kicks (one to Manchester United and one to Liverpool,) as well as a red card to United's Nemanja Vidić. Commentator Andy Gray said on Sky Sports's TV commentary, following Vidić's dismissal that, "Alan Wiley, in my opinion, has got all the big decisions (today) right." Liverpool's Fabio Aurelio would score the resulting free-kick, putting his team up 3–1 in a match they won by a final scoreline of 4–1.

On 15 August 2009, he had the honour of refereeing the first game of the new Premier League season between Chelsea F.C. and Hull City A.F.C., Chelsea ran out 2–1 winners.

On 3 October 2009 Sir Alex Ferguson launched a scathing attack on Wiley in a post-match interview following Manchester United's 2–2 draw against Sunderland, complaining that Wiley was 'not fit enough for a game of that standard' and accused Wiley of 'walking up the pitch for the second goal needing a rest'.[11] Ferguson received a four game touchline ban (two of which were suspended) and a £20,000 fine for his comments.[12]

Ferguson has since apologised to Wiley but stated that the overall fitness of referees in the Premier League needs to be addressed.[13]

On 20 January 2010, Wiley did not penalise Arsenal's William Gallas for his tackle on Bolton's Mark Davies in a sequence that led to an Arsenal goal. Bolton manager Owen Coyle said that Gallas should have been sent off.[14]

Wiley was accused of a further blunder-prone performance the following month when he disallowed a late Ryan Shawcross goal for Stoke City against Manchester City and did not punish a blatant kick from Patrick Vieira on Glenn Whelan.[15]

In April 2010, Wiley was reported to have performed inconsistently in his handling of an FA Cup semi-final match between Portsmouth and Tottenham.[16]

In July 2010, Wiley retired from refereeing and agreed to become a full time referee coach, sharing his expertise in developing the next generation of referees.[17]


So lets see, the bad game where they lost 4-1 happened the year before he retired, and Fergie said nothing, did nothing and he got another UTd game, in a season in which is listed on wiki as being one of several high profile games that he apparently screwed up. He "cryptically agreed to something", yeah, he retired AND agreed to coach referee's.

Just like AVB got fired then agreed to be the Spurs coach.

If Wiley retired at 40, after one big screw up against Fergie, thats one thing, when Wiley was almost 50 and had made a bunch of mistakes and DID look unfit... he retired... ooo the conspiracy.


Bad reporting, pointing out a real case of corruption in the actual sport you're talking about, then talking about other corruption cases in the UK, that being all the proof he needs that corruption in the EPL is rife. Then a bunch of seemingly connected but ultimately stupid facts that are unlinked and easily explained.

I mean, does anyone think there would be more penalties for Wigan than Utd, especially at Old Trafford, over 1 game, maybe, over 10 years, no. Better players against worse defenders pretty much logically predicts more penalties for better sides, and more penalties for the best sides. Be that one ref of 15 ref's, they'd still give more penalties to Utd.

There is also the small and very obvious fact that well, ref's get penalty decisions wrong FOR all teams in the league, no matter who they play against usually.

Then lastly, in ALL situations, in all sports, in all industries, people work hard and the best people get the choice assignments. Old italian baldyhead got SO many massive games while being the most respected ref in the game. The best ref got the best games and the biggest games partially because he proved he deserved them and partially as bigger games tend to have bigger tempers, bigger rivalries, bigger consequences and better ref's cope with that better than the worst refs.

With NO corruption I would expect a very small group of the 2 best ref's in the league to take on most of the biggest games, be they title deciders, cup finals, or huge derbies between teams that often get physical with each other.
 
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