I'm sure Mourinho is more worried about his own team than United's given how they've been playing this season.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [9 - 17th February 2013]
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I'm sure Mourinho is more worried about his own team than United's given how they've been playing this season.
We are in a no win situation either with the press or so called fans like Nickg.
We win and Real will be called out for being a one man team and ****
We lose and it will be La Liga is miles better than the Prem etc etc etc ad naseum
Caporegime
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Can't win with almost any Utd fans full stop, the judgement of today's game is hilarious. Utd were pretty immense today, RVP missed a few chances but was fantastic otherwise, his all around game sucked according to some, no idea what game they were watching.
RVP controlled almost everything that was given to him, long/short/difficult high passes/etc, picked out others easily with most of his passes, aside from missing chances he screwed up very few moves, passing into space, linking well with Rooney, Giggs, Cleverley, Valencia(who wasted almost everything as per usual). He was flicking passes over players to keep the ball, rather than wasting the ball and conceding possession, simple enough stuff but he got almost all of it right. RVP had a poor game or is off form, some people are truly ridiculous, he should have scored one more goal for sure, big deal, EVERY striker misses EASY chances in most games, thats life, Messi, the single best player in the world has missed LOADS of sitters. The difference between great and crap players is how often they get in positions to score, which RVP did well again today.
Jones with Carrick was a woeful, woeful combination against Spurs, but Jones with a midfield actually willing to stay in midfield, push forwards, had a bit of energy for closing down and getting forward was far far more effective. Jones did a pretty excellent job marking all the space Pienaar, Fellani, Osman like to roam around in. Everton were relatively poor, in large part because of the job Utd did.
Against Spurs Utd's midfield had one slow guy, with zero pace, without the fight, ability, strength or intelligence to hold his ground in midfield, he just retreated, but that left Utd's attack utterly isolated and under constant pressure for the majority of the game.
Giggs, for two games has been the 28year old version of himself, he's been faster, had more energy, closed people down, moved into space, outside of doping I have no real explanation, looked pretty damn useful today, his + RVP's movement in particular kept Everton uncomfortable.
If they play Carrick against Real, they'll not certainly lose but be far more likely, Real don't have anyone who can't outfight, out move, out think or out pass Carrick, they'll run rings around him, Carrick will drop deep as he does to try and be effective when there is less space to move around him, but that will give Utd zero presense in midfield like against Spurs.
You need as today, a stronger faster player in someone like Jones, plus some attacking players who actually offer an out ball, movement, closing and pressure on the opposition something Carrick has never been able to provide.
Real ARE a one man team, but Ronaldo is several levels above Everton's best, so while Jones did a great containing job today, expecting the same against Ronaldo is a very very tall order.
Neither Real nor Utd should win, every team has poor games, Real have major problems at the moment but are still capable of putting in a good performance, and most of their players will feel this is the only competition they have anything left to prove in so are more likely to up their game. Real or Utd winning/losing will prove precisely nothing about either team, its two leg's where any team in the world can have one or two bad games.
DM is actually right in then above post though.
Good as carrick is at recycling the ball and making interceptions, he's not a particularly brave or rounded midfielder.
He doesn't handle being close down and he doesn't do pressing or tackling really.
Good as carrick is at recycling the ball and making interceptions, he's not a particularly brave or rounded midfielder.
He doesn't handle being close down and he doesn't do pressing or tackling really.
Caporegime
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Mancini's response has been to blame players and said if his players can't take responsibility they don't have balls and don't deserve to be at a top team.
Mancini seemingly fails to realise that, if the players don't have said balls and don't deserve to be at a top team... then its Mancini's fault for both buying and playing them.
If the players do take responsibility, they still weren't good enough, Mancini still brought and played them, if the players were good enough, then the only other explanation is his tactics and training, thereby making himself responsible again.
Bringing two fullbacks chasing a game against a good but not great side, leaving attackers on the bench, selling a striker HE got into a fight with over a tackle no one else cared about, that IIRC was on Sinclair... a player Mancini pretty much refuses to play, Tevez has "personal" issues again, which without hearing anythign about it I'm taking to mean "won't sign a contract so the club shooting themselves in the foot not playing him to force his hand".
Didn't buy the targets he wanted, boo hoo, management isn't about replacing 30mil players with 40mil players the next year every year, its about getting the best out of what you've got, which he isn't doing. The squad was good enough to win the title last year, and most teams got worse this year, he didn't have to buy Sinclari, Garcia, Maicon, nor a bunch of other players who are now a complete drain on resources. He's mishandled loads of players, sold key players like De Jong, brought in poor replacements for players. Got into fights with multiple players, had a go at his players, called them unprofessional and not up to it, had a go after Richards commented they hadn't practiced 3-5-2 before playing it, jumps on the players after every bad result, jumped on Tevez, Dzeko, Zabeleta DURING that Bayern game after which he lied about Tevez refusing to play, etc. Seems to me with every new argument he creates, with every time he refuses to take any blame, every time he crys about not buying some 40mil player, that he's losing the players respect and they aren't working hard for him anymore.
I also thought it was worth pointing out, should Liverpool fans and the press be banging on about a draw with City being huge... when Southampton can batter them?
Mancini seemingly fails to realise that, if the players don't have said balls and don't deserve to be at a top team... then its Mancini's fault for both buying and playing them.
If the players do take responsibility, they still weren't good enough, Mancini still brought and played them, if the players were good enough, then the only other explanation is his tactics and training, thereby making himself responsible again.
Bringing two fullbacks chasing a game against a good but not great side, leaving attackers on the bench, selling a striker HE got into a fight with over a tackle no one else cared about, that IIRC was on Sinclair... a player Mancini pretty much refuses to play, Tevez has "personal" issues again, which without hearing anythign about it I'm taking to mean "won't sign a contract so the club shooting themselves in the foot not playing him to force his hand".
Didn't buy the targets he wanted, boo hoo, management isn't about replacing 30mil players with 40mil players the next year every year, its about getting the best out of what you've got, which he isn't doing. The squad was good enough to win the title last year, and most teams got worse this year, he didn't have to buy Sinclari, Garcia, Maicon, nor a bunch of other players who are now a complete drain on resources. He's mishandled loads of players, sold key players like De Jong, brought in poor replacements for players. Got into fights with multiple players, had a go at his players, called them unprofessional and not up to it, had a go after Richards commented they hadn't practiced 3-5-2 before playing it, jumps on the players after every bad result, jumped on Tevez, Dzeko, Zabeleta DURING that Bayern game after which he lied about Tevez refusing to play, etc. Seems to me with every new argument he creates, with every time he refuses to take any blame, every time he crys about not buying some 40mil player, that he's losing the players respect and they aren't working hard for him anymore.
I also thought it was worth pointing out, should Liverpool fans and the press be banging on about a draw with City being huge... when Southampton can batter them?
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Soldato
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I said over a year ago Jones looked better in a defensive midfield position than being in the back 4 as a centre-back and nobody believed me.
Caporegime
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My post was tongue in cheek, slightly, but do you think mourinho left yesterday shaking in his boots? Hardly.
Yes we still rely on giggs. Is rvp off form or just a bad day at the office? He did the same move on the keeper twice, first time he hits the post, second he nearly tries too hard to replicate the first and is fortunate that the defender slid it in as I've seen them shovelled off the line in incidents like that before.
I stand by my Valencia comments. He is not playing well in an attacking sense. Whether its confidence or his foot just not right from his last big injury I don't know. But he doesn't strike me as a 20million winger.
Meh might as well hand the title to Utd, City are so so dire as shown in their last 2 games against Liverpool and Soton.
Dont think City will make up the 12 pts as i cant see Utd dropping many points to the run up of the title race.
Well done City for just giving Utd their most easiest of easiest EPL title wins
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Dont think City will make up the 12 pts as i cant see Utd dropping many points to the run up of the title race.
Well done City for just giving Utd their most easiest of easiest EPL title wins
.12 points clear and still Fergies stewardship of United is brought into question. It doesn't matter that Giggs is 150. Fergie looked at his squad and decided he didn't need to replace him to take back the title, something he has done time and time again. He decided how much was needed to win it back and looks a cert to do that.
If City were now 12 points clear you could debate the wisdom in the players he has brought in to add to the side but they aren't. Last year in the man for man thread many people concluded that United had the better side. Now they have added RVP and City didn't add much quality at all. The players they do have aren't hitting the highs of last year.
Somehow though Fergie is still doing it all wrong.
If City were now 12 points clear you could debate the wisdom in the players he has brought in to add to the side but they aren't. Last year in the man for man thread many people concluded that United had the better side. Now they have added RVP and City didn't add much quality at all. The players they do have aren't hitting the highs of last year.
Somehow though Fergie is still doing it all wrong.
The united fans who complain are probably of the same opinion that many fans of european leagues have in regards to the PL - the quality sucks, United are simply the best of an overall pretty bad bunch.
Makes the league more exciting (well, except for the title being a forgone conclusion) but the quality just isnt there anymore outside of United and City (when they Sack Roberto anyway)
No he's not, 3 weeks on he's still harping on about the Spurs/United game, he was wrong on the day, he was wrong last week and he's still wrong today (I guess in part because no one's brought him up on it he thinks he's correct hence him repeating the same tosh over and over again)
Against Spurs Carrick was immense, he was rightly named MOTM and while the majority of his great performances over the past season and a half have been down to his use of the ball against Spurs he showed what a good defensive side of his game he has. Against Spurs they didn't dominate possession because Carrick & Jones were poor they dominated possession because that's how Fergie set his tactics up, Fergie set the team up to sit deep, to absorb pressure and hit Spurs on the break and it's those exact same tactics that got us a 1-3 win in the same fixture last season, the difference between this seasons result and last seasons though is that last season Ashley Young scored two worldie's to go with the smash and grab goal Rooney got from a corner before half time
Against Spurs Carrick was snuffing out danger all over the place and like I said deserved his MOTM conversely what did Parker and Dembele do with all the possession we allowed them to have? Dembele was totally anonymous and Parker only stood out marginally more because he ran around like a headless chicken like he always does (no slant on him because that's the type of player he is)
As for yesterday's result DM said we were immense, the only part of the team that was immense was the defence and by that I really mean Rafael, Vidic and to a lesser extent Evans. RVP had a pretty quiet game by his standards, when he wasn't offside it seemed he was failing to bring others into play and yet he got an assist and a goal, Cleverley also had a quite game although I put that down to him A- not having Carrick next to him and B- his midfield partner basically given the job to follow Fellaini wherever he went. Valencia had a good game by his seasons standard but still wasn't anywhere near his best and Rooney was sacrificed to do a defensive job from the team. Of the attacking players I'd probably say Giggs was the best of the lot.
Still like I said at half time yesterday Fergie had a plan and it worked to perfection (and had it not been for Dempsey's late goal/De Gea's poor punch his plan would have worked to perfection against Spurs as well)
EDIT: Forgot to say I do agree with you about Carrick when being pressed, his two worst games this season came away to Southampton and at home to Southampton with the home game being the one when they pressed him continuously and tbh that's the best way of stopping us as a team full stop, stop Carrick getting time on the ball and you stop us but then is that not true of most teams? I'm sure if sides could get near Xavi & Iniesta to press them continuously they'd struggle as well but then that's what makes them the best, you cant get near them
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Caporegime
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Soldato
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No he's not, 3 weeks on he's still harping on about the Spurs/United game, he was wrong on the day, he was wrong last week and he's still wrong today (I guess in part because no one's brought him up on it he thinks he's correct hence him repeating the same tosh over and over again)
Against Spurs Carrick was immense, he was rightly named MOTM and while the majority of his great performances over the past season and a half have been down to his use of the ball against Spurs he showed what a good defensive side of his game he has. Against Spurs they didn't dominate possession because Carrick & Jones were poor they dominated possession because that's how Fergie set his tactics up, Fergie set the team up to sit deep, to absorb pressure and hit Spurs on the break and it's those exact same tactics that got us a 1-3 win in the same fixture last season, the difference between this seasons result and last seasons though is that last season Ashley Young scored two worldie's to go with the smash and grab goal Rooney got from a corner before half time
Against Spurs Carrick was snuffing out danger all over the place and like I said deserved his MOTM conversely what did Parker and Dembele do with all the possession we allowed them to have? Dembele was totally anonymous and Parker only stood out marginally more because he ran around like a headless chicken like he always does (no slant on him because that's the type of player he is)
As for yesterday's result DM said we were immense, the only part of the team that was immense was the defence and by that I really mean Rafael, Vidic and to a lesser extent Evans. RVP had a pretty quiet game by his standards, when he wasn't offside it seemed he was failing to bring others into play and yet he got an assist and a goal, Cleverley also had a quite game although I put that down to him A- not having Carrick next to him and B- his midfield partner basically given the job to follow Fellaini wherever he went. Valencia had a good game by his seasons standard but still wasn't anywhere near his best and Rooney was sacrificed to do a defensive job from the team. Of the attacking players I'd probably say Giggs was the best of the lot.
Still like I said at half time yesterday Fergie had a plan and it worked to perfection (and had it not been for Dempsey's late goal/De Gea's poor punch his plan would have worked to perfection against Spurs as well)
EDIT: Forgot to say I do agree with you about Carrick when being pressed, his two worst games this season came away to Southampton and at home to Southampton with the home game being the one when they pressed him continuously and tbh that's the best way of stopping us as a team full stop, stop Carrick getting time on the ball and you stop us but then is that not true of most teams? I'm sure if sides could get near Xavi & Iniesta to press them continuously they'd struggle as well but then that's what makes them the best, you cant get near them
Carrick is great going forward, but he's terrible at being a defensive midfielder, unless he is paired with someone who can fill that role. That is something that I agree with DM on, and is why Jones fills that role better but lacks the ability to move forward as well as Carrick does.
Liverpool: Reina; Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Enrique; Downing, Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson; Shelvey; Suarez.
Subs: Jones, Coutinho, Allen, Borini, Wisdom, Skrtel, Sterling
WBA: Foster; Reid, McAuley, Olsson, Ridgewell; Mulumbu, Yacob; Dorrans, Morrison, Brunt; Long
Subs: Myhill, Lukaku, Fortune, Jones, Rosenberg, Tamas, Thomas
I want to see Coutinho.
Subs: Jones, Coutinho, Allen, Borini, Wisdom, Skrtel, Sterling
WBA: Foster; Reid, McAuley, Olsson, Ridgewell; Mulumbu, Yacob; Dorrans, Morrison, Brunt; Long
Subs: Myhill, Lukaku, Fortune, Jones, Rosenberg, Tamas, Thomas
I want to see Coutinho.
Agreed, come on leaps and bounds this season.
Caporegime
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Carrick isn't great going forwards, used to be, he suffers from the same problems as defensively, absolutely no pace, hates being pressured, no strength at all, he's muscled out of games offensively just as easily as defensively.
Jones + Carrick against Spurs looked woeful, to the point it didn't work in the slightest, Jones plus Cleverley just worked better, when someone does more defensive work the other main midfielder needs to be able to break forward and get to the box to support the attack, or the pace to run wide to help defend the flanks, or pressure the ball.
Also don't forget the ability to do something with the ball, Utd vs Spurs was 5 shots to 25 for Spurs, Everton vs Utd was around 10 each. It was that Giggs did FAR more with the ball than Welbeck could dream of doing, Cleverley moved better than Carrick ever could, so Utd could hold the ball in Everton's half for long periods.
Carrick isn't going to work against Real as he can't do anything required of an offensive of defensive midfielder. Cleverley did a better job against Everton both offensively and defensively than I've seen Carrick do against any decent team.
Sure, when you play someone crap, there is next to no pressure defensively like one striker against the back four, everyone else camped in their own box and Carrick has all the time and space in midfield he could want, he looks comfortable.
Welbeck/Carrick make that Utd team poor, can't hold possession in the opposition half, can't close down players in either half with one complete dead weight the other team can always play around, can't maintain a cohensive midfield system.