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GT86

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Delta3D, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    You lot may have remembered me asking if getting a 330Ci is worth my time/money at 18. I've waived that one goodbye since as I saw, it was a silly idea :p

    I've now got my mind set on a Toyota GT86 (Used), something around the first two years of production (2012-2013), however I've been wondering what to look for - Ideally, I'd like sub-45k Miles, £12k after negotiation, Full Toyota Service History.

    What sort of issues are common with these too? I know the engines are pretty much bulletproof when it comes to that however I've heard of a couple of stories about windows scratching badly and a dodgy battery.

    Anyone here with experience of buying a used GT86? I know I've seen @Conscript on the 86 forums so maybe you can help out? :)
     
  2. Lowe

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 6,035

    Location: Newcastle Under Lyme

    Not *that* much goes wrong with them if you don't mess with them. There's some niggles which can pop up - you're pretty much guaranteed some but unlikely all of the below:

    Early 48a batteries aren't big enough. Warranty covers swap to a bigger 65a.
    Mirror glass on interior mirror delaminates and falls off.
    Runners on windows can cause scratches as they get older.
    Window quarterpanel pillar rusts. Get this done if you see a hint of it, each tiny window part is 400 quid a side!
    Cricket sounding fuel pump.
    Condensation in rear lights.
    Gear linkage rattle. Tends to happen at about 5k rpm, can't be completely solved.
    2nd gear being a **** to engage when gearbox is cold.
    Cam cover oil leak

    Most of the above are easy to sort with the exception of 2nd gear being a ****. That's just a quirk of the car and you have to live with it. Gearbox oil change can help but isn't a definite fix.

    I love mine, it's a great introduction to RWD. Not sure how you'll get on with insurance though given your age. I'd have thought it'll be unreasonable to say the least.
     
  3. Conscript

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2004

    Posts: 8,764

    Location: Kent

    Hello. There are some common minor issues which were easily covered by the warranty. The first cars are now just coming out of warranty (mine is a 2013 62 plate and the warranty ended on 31st January), so if you pick one up it might be worth checking to see if these have already been addressed.

    - Battery. It's known for being a little weak and discharging quickly on cars that aren't driven regularly. Owners who suffered not being able to start the car after it had been sat were able to in a lot of instances to get the original 48aH battery replaced under warranty with an uprated 65Ah, which is something you should be able to check by inspecting the battery. But even if it's not been replaced, you are probably better off just buying a decent aftermarket battery. That being said, this is not a problem for everyone; I've had the car almost 5 years and driven it daily, and despite being a little sluggish on cold mornings after sitting a couple of days, not once has it failed to start. On a weekend car, it might become more of a problem.
    - Tail light condensation. Another common problem was the build up of condensation in the tail lights. Widely reported, but again, an easy warranty fix. I never had mine done as I never noticed enough condensation in mine to warrant me thinking it was a problem. Also, a lot of people swap the rear tail lights for aftermarket units anyway (because rofLexus).
    - Crickets. Perhaps the most infamous issue is the engine "chirping" noise. Just do a Google search for "gt86 noisy crickets", I'm sure you'll find some examples. It's a noise caused by the high-pressure fuel pump when the engine is warm. There's apparently a revised part which was fitted under warranty, although some owners reported the noise coming back after replacement. As far as I know though, it's not a problem, I don't recall anyone reporting the pump to have failed. Just sounds a bit odd, that's all. Mine does it when run on V-Power, but interestingly, it's silent using Esso 97, so it's something to do with fuel content. I never bothered getting mine replaced as I don't notice it much anyway, but it's worth mentioning that if you hear it, it's a common noise and not necessarily something to worry about.
    - Quarter light window trim. Check the piece of vertical black trim that sits between the moving part of the passenger window, and the small triangle quarter light. Right where is meets the seal running along the top of the door. A bad design means that you can get bubbles of rust forming where the pieces of trim rub against each other. Again, should have been easy to rectify under warranty - something I've neglected myself as it's not too noticeable, but I might get it looked at. The part can be replaced, but it's quite expensive and requires the door being taken apart, so try and find one where it's already been rectified.
    - Rear view mirror. The car has a frameless rear view mirror, but several owners, myself included, found that it started to suffer from de-lamination around the edges. My initial warranty claim for this was rejected, Toyota claiming that it wasn't covered under the normal warranty as it was an interior part and subject to wear and tear. However, on the advice of the service manager of the local Toyota dealer, I kicked up a fuss with a Strongly Worded Email(TM) direct to Toyota GB - they replaced it without any further argument.
    - Cam cover oil leak. Another "common" issue, is that there is a small triangular cam cover in the engine bay which can seep oil. It's not really much to worry about, can be easily fixed with an aftermarket plate and even so, the "leak" is minimal....not even enough that you'd notice a drop in oil level. I've checked mine and it seems OK, but look into it if you wish. I wouldn't even use it to discount a car I was looking at, just an easy fix to be aware of.

    As for the scratched windows, I haven't seen too many complaints about this. When the car is dirty, I can see some vertical stripes on the window which I think is caused by the mechanism inside the door contacting the glass. However it's minor and the glass is undamaged so I don't worry about it. I can't really think of any other known issues. There's been talk of blown engines, but as far as I know, it's mainly from people running modified cars using a lot of boost.

    A few quality of life things I'd bear in mind if you do buy one:
    - Gearbox quality. A lot of owners experience a particularly notchy and hard to engage second gear, especially when the engine is cold. It's not generally something to worry about, but I would recommend getting a decent quality gearbox oil installed as it can improve the feel of the gearbox immensely. It's also worth noting that there's a company call MTEC who sell a set of stronger shifter springs for the gearbox which make it feel much nicer - a little tricky to install, but often cited as the best bang for buck modification to do to the car.
    - Clutch. Similarly, the clutch on the car is often criticised for feeling a little vague. Part of the problem is that the clutch pedal assembly houses a powerful helper spring which keeps the pedal taught when released, but helps actuate the clutch as it is pressed down. This spring can be removed entirely, or you can get onto MTEC again who sell a weaker spring. I installed this and it made the clutch feel much more direct and responsive and made the car easier to drive as a result.

    Finally, just a word on service costs. They aren't horrendous at all, but bear in mind that the 60K mile service interval involves a spark plug change. This will be expensive, as the spark plugs are not easy to access at all. Expect to pay £500-600 for this. It's not unexpected, just a cost you'll have to bear, but it's worth bearing in mind if you pick up a car approaching this mileage, that it might need doing soon. If you start looking at higher mileages, maybe try and find one which has passed 60K and has had this service done already.

    I now notice that whilst I've been typing all this, Lowe has responded covering most of the above but much more succinctly, so I'll stop typing now and just say if you have any further questions, I'm happy to help where I can :)
     
  4. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    Thanks for the reply Lowe :)

    I've heard about the 2nd gear one, my dad drives an MX5 Mk3 (Previously had a Mk1) and said he gets the 2nd gear issue, also read somewhere that they use the same gearboxes, whether this is true or not is beyond me.

    Insurance is by far not a pleasing number to look at (£2500 :() however I'm willing to foot this. Hoping to get one from a Toyota dealership ideally, then I can get a 12 month warranty and get rid of any issues that have not been solved if it has any.
     
  5. Conscript

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2004

    Posts: 8,764

    Location: Kent

    I think the gearbox is the same, yeah. But it's never felt as bad in the GT86 as it did in my MX5 NC, that could be a right pig at times.
     
  6. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    Thanks also Conscript :)

    I've seen about the 60k service being expensive so wanting to get something around the 45k mark so I don't have to worry about this for the next year and a half or so.

    The battery one shouldn't be too big of an issue as it'd be a daily driver
     
  7. Steeps

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 8, 2003

    Posts: 4,713

    Location: Bedfordshire

    The full Toyota service history is not always followed, even if the book is stamped so unless you can get an itemised list of work done at each service filled out accurately they might have neglected to replace the rear diff oil or the brake fluid at the required intervals. At 60k the service requires (if done through the dealer) an engine lift to replace the spark plugs and is not a cheap job so a higher mileage one with the service done might be better.

    Battery is fine if it's a daily driver with the 65ah, if it isn't even the 65ah can die in a winter. I'm on my 3rd battery in 4 years

    Gearbox is a bit of a lottery. My first gearbox at first wouldn't change from 1-2 unless warm. After adjustments and oil changes it got worse and I could not change down at all from 3-2 unless the car was either 30mins warm or at a complete standstill which made roundabouts a complete pain. In the end Toyota replaced my gearbox after I threatened to return the car due to unsatisfactory quality (PCP) with one I tested on their forecourt that was perfect and smooth, 3 years later I have not had any issues with that gearbox.

    You can check to see if the car has been remapped in the past by pulling forwards the cruise control stalk (with cruise off/light off) and the rev needle will move to tell you what mode it's in (can store 4 maps at 1-2-3-4 by switching the stalk up and down)

    Another risk of rust is under the seal between the bonnet and the front bumper.

    Even with all the faults I can't think of a different car I would rather have, used to get funny looks when I'd get asked by friends if I could go to Ikea with them because the car was capable of carrying 2.3m long flatpack furniture.
     
  8. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,932

    I use one every day which is now on 53k miles, no major issues just annoying things. I had the quarterlight pillars, noisy fuel pump and rear view mirror replaced under warranty so far and I'm trying to get them to replace the scratched driver's window (the mechanism can freeze in winter and cause scratches apparently, it was fixed with the facelift car I think). Fixed the cam plate oil leak myself because the OEM part is junk.

    The big down side is because they have made the car lightweight. The body panels and paint chip and damage very easily because they are thin. My front bumper is now getting to the point where it will need a complete respray because it's peppered with stone chips etc. So if your OCD about bodywork you will hate it :p. No rust on mine yet though at 5 years old.

    The car is easy to work on if your into modding. Unlike most modern cars things aren't hidden under a sea of plastic. You can open the bonnet and see everything.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  9. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    Thanks for the replies guys,

    Want to ideally keep it below 45k ish even though I can see the reasoning behind getting 60k+ due to the servicing. Happy to foot this cost when the time comes.

    Colour is also a question, I'd like either White Red or Blue (Obviously it'll depend on what's available at the time) and am completely torn between the three.
     
  10. Lowe

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 6,035

    Location: Newcastle Under Lyme

    80k is also a 600 quid service. Fuel filter is replaced and it’s in the tank itself. Rear seats etc have to all come out!
     
  11. Conscript

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2004

    Posts: 8,764

    Location: Kent

    Damn, really? I'm on 71k. Mind you, about to move offices to London, so no longer a daily driver and doing loads of miles.
     
  12. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    Seems like there's a couple of big services! Sounds like a chance to fix the chirping issue, I've read that an uprated fuel pump can solve this?
     
  13. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,932

    Since the fuel pump in mine was replaced about 6 months ago it's been silent. I think they did update the design to fix it.

    Even if it does chirp it's not a sign it's going to break. I've yet to hear of one failing and the garage that did mine say they have never had to replace a broken one.
     
  14. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    I think it's one of them hit and miss things where it'll only annoy me if I notice it's there and sit listening to it, however that being said I rarely sit with my engine idling in my current car for longer than ~1 minute (with the exception of traffic lights and the likes). Can't really say if it's going to be noticeable till I get in one with it :)
     
  15. rebel rebel

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 30, 2010

    Posts: 1,836

    Location: Exile

    This is a very interesting thread, I love the Gt86! I hope oneday to be able to buy one and mod it a little. Are the automatics a complete none starter, even if modded?
     
  16. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,932

    The automatic box is quite a good one I think. It's not dual clutch (not necessarily a bad thing) but it seems pretty solid.

    Automatics are cheaper on the used market too.
     
  17. rebel rebel

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 30, 2010

    Posts: 1,836

    Location: Exile

    Can they be driven hard or will it change gear too early? I've heard that most of the performance is in the high revs.
     
  18. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    Not sure what they're like when they're just in regular auto but they have paddle shifters from what I have seen so you can shift when you want :)
     
  19. rebel rebel

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 30, 2010

    Posts: 1,836

    Location: Exile

    Very interesting! Delta3D have you got an insurance quote yet? I hope it's reasonable, driving a Gt86 as an 18 year old would be pretty epic!!!
     
  20. Delta3D

    Gangster

    Joined: Apr 16, 2014

    Posts: 438

    Location: Durham, UK

    I have indeed, looking at around £2400 without a blackbox or £1800 with one, I'm going for the non-box option though :) I'm going to be calling up the modified specialist insurers like Adrian Flux closer to the time to see if I can knock some pennies off. Will update the final price in August though :)

    It's a big price but it'll go with a big smile driving around in a GT86 at 18