Guesses Please: What speeds do you think a B-Grade 7870 will reach?

Twirlywoos · 28 Sep 2012 at 11:46

555BUK said:
ASIC quality is 84%, which matched exactly with the ASIC quality of my "golden" 7850. Seems 84 is my lucky number. All of the other 7800's I have tested have had lower ASIC's (60's and 70's) and clocked significantly lower.

Clock for clock, the 7870's seem about 5-10% faster than 7850's. Heaven seems the best case scenario for the 7870, so if you are on a budget get a 7850.

At 1325/1500 speeds, these cards edge out stock 7970's on similar systems. Of course the 7970's clock much higher as well, and they will also have the edge at higher resolutions, but within most games at reasonable resolutions you wouldn't notice any difference.

I'm telling you mate ASIC means didly squat!!
I have two 670's with 100% ASIC and compared to others with lower ASIC quality I get an average overclock.

Nice o/c though, enjoy your cards

B Grade is always a gamble, you just got lucky.

555BUK · 28 Sep 2012 at 11:49

majnu said:
I'm telling you mate ASIC means didly squat!!
I have two 670's with 100% ASIC and compared to others with lower ASIC quality I get an average overclock.

Nice o/c though, enjoy your cards
B Grade is always a gamble, you just got lucky.

There is no such thing as a 100% ASIC. Your 670 is simply being read incorrectly by GPU-Z and it is your 100% reading that means diddly squat. All 670's read as 100% so the measurement is a moot point for your card.

On the other hand I agree that high ASIC's (where the measurement can really be taken) do not gurantee high overclocks, but in my experience they make it more likely. ASIC is basically a measurement of leakage. Higher ASIC values mean the GPU requires less voltage to run at normal operating speeds. 7850's for example run by the following voltage table (I do not exact boundaries, but theay are roughly correct).

7850 ASIC/Voltage table
ASIC <70% = 1.218v
ASIC 70-80% = 1.138v to 1.176v
ASIC >80& = 1.075V

For 7870's the table is almost always 1.218v, irrespective of ASIC.

Now, a card that can run stock settings at a lower voltage will create less heat and SHOULD overclock better. Nothing is guaranteed however because the GPU is not the only component that dictates headroom. PCB components, power supply and other factors also contibute.

but, ALL of my 7800 series cards have overclocked roughly in line with their ASIC values.

555BUK · 28 Sep 2012 at 12:35

Spenty said:
Congrats, mine has 84.7% ASIC but overclocking either does nothing or makes performance worse. It's either my PSU or a compatibility issue somewhere.

Which program are you using to overclock? I find Sapphire's Trixx software to be the most reliable for AMD 7 series cards. It is quite basic, but it works well enough.

Spenty · 28 Sep 2012 at 12:48

555BUK said:
Which program are you using to overclock? I find Sapphire's Trixx software to be the most reliable for AMD 7 series cards. It is quite basic, but it works well enough.

Tried them all, I've only tried the new beta drivers so it could be them.

Twirlywoos · 28 Sep 2012 at 13:17

555BUK said:
.... ASIC is basically a measurement of leakage. Higher ASIC values mean the GPU requires less voltage to run at normal operating speeds. 7850's for example run by the following voltage table (I do not exact boundaries, but theay are roughly correct).

7850 ASIC/Voltage table
ASIC <70% = 1.218v
ASIC 70-80% = 1.138v to 1.176v
ASIC >80& = 1.075V
.

This would make more sense.

Spenty · 28 Sep 2012 at 14:21

Fixed my issue by reverting to 12.8 drivers.

555BUK · 28 Sep 2012 at 14:23

Spenty said:
Tried them all, I've only tried the new beta drivers so it could be them.

I suggest the following.
i). Download the latest official Cat 12.8 drivers. Do NOT install yet.
ii). Download a program called Driver Sweeper and install.
iii). Uninstall old drivers from Control Panel.
iv). Restart Windows into Safe Mode.
v). Run Driver Sweeper from Safe Mode and clean AMD/ATI/NVidia files.
vi). Reboot into normal Windows.
vii). Install Cat 12.8 drivers.
viii). Try to overclock.

AMD love leaving junk from previous driver installs in the registry. Driver cleaner gets rid of the mess.

Nutty_Death · 28 Sep 2012 at 20:30

You make me wish that I had bought one.
Was holding out on a 7950 once I get a bit more cash but it sounds like a decent clocked 7870 would be more than enough at 1080.

I have a v gene as well. Could you not have used a different sata port or used a right angled connector for it? Makes think it could be a issue with all cards of that side.

LtMatt · 28 Sep 2012 at 20:37

555BUK said:
I suggest the following.
i). Download the latest official Cat 12.8 drivers. Do NOT install yet.
ii). Download a program called Driver Sweeper and install.
iii). Uninstall old drivers from Control Panel.
iv). Restart Windows into Safe Mode.
v). Run Driver Sweeper from Safe Mode and clean AMD/ATI/NVidia files.
vi). Reboot into normal Windows.
vii). Install Cat 12.8 drivers.
viii). Try to overclock.

AMD love leaving junk from previous driver installs in the registry. Driver cleaner gets rid of the mess.

The driver sweeper creator has stopped updating the software. He has now created Driver Fusion instead, I'd advise to use that from now on as i find it detects and cleans more stuff than driver sweeper.

leoncuprar · 28 Sep 2012 at 20:45

Interesting thread.

I've got a B grade 7870 on the way. My first forray away from nvidia so will be on a bit of a learning curve. So my first question, of which there is bound to be a few in the coming weeks, is how do you get the measure for ASIC ?

Hope I get as good a card as yours OP

Spenty · 28 Sep 2012 at 22:12

LtMatt said:
The driver sweeper creator has stopped updating the software. He has now created Driver Fusion instead, I'd advise to use that from now on as i find it detects and cleans more stuff than driver sweeper.

The free version of driver fusion doesn't clean all files.

555BUK · 28 Sep 2012 at 22:40

Deaths_Calling said:
You make me wish that I had bought one.
Was holding out on a 7950 once I get a bit more cash but it sounds like a decent clocked 7870 would be more than enough at 1080.

I have a v gene as well. Could you not have used a different sata port or used a right angled connector for it? Makes think it could be a issue with all cards of that side.

It is not the SATA cables which are the problem. The ports themselves and the size of the heatsink prevents the card from slotting into the pci-e slot. You will either need to mod the cooler, break off two SATA ports, or install another cooler to get it to work.

Don't buy this gard for a Maximus Gene V unless you are prepared to mod things. Most full sized mobos will be fine, but not this MATX board.

555BUK · 28 Sep 2012 at 22:42

leoncuprar said:
Interesting thread.

I've got a B grade 7870 on the way. My first forray away from nvidia so will be on a bit of a learning curve. So my first question, of which there is bound to be a few in the coming weeks, is how do you get the measure for ASIC ?

Hope I get as good a card as yours OP

You need to download a tool called GPU-Z, then right click on the top left green icon to read ASIC Quality. It is a complete raffle, so good luck.

Nutty_Death · 28 Sep 2012 at 23:26

555BUK said:
It is not the SATA cables which are the problem. The ports themselves and the size of the heatsink prevents the card from slotting into the pci-e slot. You will either need to mod the cooler, break off two SATA ports, or install another cooler to get it to work.

Don't buy this gard for a Maximus Gene V unless you are prepared to mod things. Most full sized mobos will be fine, but not this MATX board.

Is it a particularly long card? Do you know if i'm likely to run into this with other high end cards. Not heard of people having this problem before.

Thanks for the info.

LtMatt · 29 Sep 2012 at 07:56

Spenty said:
The free version of driver fusion doesn't clean all files.

Did driver sweeper clean those files? Which ones did it leave behind?

555BUK · 29 Sep 2012 at 10:08

Old copies of Driver Sweeper can be found easily enough by Googling.

The length of the card is about 11 inches in total. The heatsink overhangs the pcb by about 1 inch at the end. The problem with it is that it sits very low in comparison to the bottom of the card. I think most ATX mobos will be fine, but many MATX mobos may have issues with SATA ports preventing proper seating into the pci-e slot.

I had to cut a 1 inch x half inch chunk off of the bottom left heatsink corner in the pic below. It does not affect performance, but I didi invalidate my 90 day B-Grade warranty.

humbug · 29 Sep 2012 at 14:08

555BUK said:
You got one correct.

edit: oh well, here's the results.

Best completely stable results are 1325MHz core @ 1.3v and 1500MHz mem. On stock volts the GPU goes to 1250MHz. I can benchmark Heaven at 1360MHz and 3DMark11 at 1375MHx, but the card is far from stable at these speeds. The memory appears stable up until 1575MHz, but benchmark scores decrease indicating some error correction.

Here is another Heaven (showing background) and 3DMark11 bench @ 1325/1500.

I was expecting a B-Grade card to be a poor clocker, have coil whine, a noisy fan, or be in some way belmished. This one is the exact opposite. I am well happy.

..just a shame it cannot match one of my 7850's that got to 1400MHz for benches.

Nice

I got a 3DM-11 Graphics Score of 7535 @ 1245 / 1500 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4431544

And 1604 In heaven @ 1220 / 1500

My ASIC is 78.8

555BUK · 29 Sep 2012 at 15:58

humbug said:
Nice

I got a 3DM-11 Graphics Score of 7535 @ 1245 / 1500

And 1604 In heaven @ 1220 / 1500

My ASIC is 78.8

Anyone who gets 1200MHz+ on a 7850/7870 has got to be happy. They provide a hell of a lot of performance for the money. I think anything below 1150 can be counted as disappointing, but every extra MHz above that is a nice bonus

. You are pushing 7950-7970 scores for Heaven and 3DMark11.

Spenty · 29 Sep 2012 at 16:07

I've just left mine at 1150/1450 stock volts. Trying to reach 1200+ requires pumping 1.25v+ and offers very little extra performance. I score 1550 in Heaven and around 7400 in 3dmark11 with 1150/1450.

humbug · 29 Sep 2012 at 16:07

555BUK said:
Anyone who gets 1200MHz+ on a 7850/7870 has got to be happy. They provide a hell of a lot of performance for the money. I think anything below 1150 can be counted as disappointing, but every extra MHz above that is a nice bonus. You are pushing 7950-7970 scores for Heaven and 3DMark11.

Oh sure i'm happy, it is a good solid performer, worth every penny even if i did buy it @ £240

It's about an average clocker and i'm fine with that. but if you want to see a real clocker you need to see this http://www.overclockers.com/msi-r7870-hawk-review

He 3DM-11 benched that 7870 @ 1380 / 1500, incredible, and an incredible score.