Guild Wars 2
- Thread starter bushmins
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Without a link my initial thought is FAKE!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/t21ma/jon_peters_aoe_damage_buffs_limited_to_5_targets/
there you go, am at work so was being quick, apologies
Many skills already have a maximum targets affected listed anyway.
Would be a shame to see the ground based/PB AoEs limited though.....they are avoidable after all.
Ouch. This is bad news for small organised groups in WvW, it massively strengthens the zerg. This will definitely make AE damage a lot more situational and will favour master assist style gameplay (edit: single target priority for the non-DAoC'ers amongst you).
I can understand a target cap on AoE for balance reasons, but why for buffs?
So in WvWvW / DEs, my healing rain will only work on 5 allies in its huge area? Thats useless!
Bizarre thing to say. Of course it is.
Depends. If power is increased and intelligent targeting is used (Eg 5 players with lowest health) it could actually be a boost.
If power remains as is and/or random targets are picked, irrespective of current health levels it is a huge nerf.
WoW had this issue and it was solved by intelligent targeting. Circle of Healing would affect a max of 10 targets, but pick the 10 lowest health individuals out of the raid of 25.
With regards to control AoE it is a massive massive nerf. How can you effectively cause or remove a choke point with control AoEs that randomly only target X number of people?
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It does seem quite strange like, I hope it is something that gets a lot of feedback and is looked at again by the developers. Its not very 'thinking different' in my opinion.
I agree, the decision seems quite contrary to their forward thinking remit, I have a feeling that they're going to go back to the drawing board on this idea...
How is it any more of an MMORPG than Age of Conan was? Every zone is hosted separately on a different, individual part of the collective of shards known nominally as the 'server'. Every quest zone is separately instanced. You cannot travel between zones or explore the world in any meaningful way: you can only move around in a large sandbox, for e.g. the human level 1-17 sandbox. To travel to the next zone you must enter another instanced area. How is this 'Massive'? I frankly dispute ANet's claims that they have designed an 'MMO'. They spoke about GW2 in its pre-release hype as if they were building a huge, persistent world - there is nothing huge or persistent about the world they have created. It's a series of fairly large scale but completely discrete and hermetic questing sandboxes. The endgame PvE caters to 5 people at a time in an instance. The endgame serious PvP caters to 5 people at a time in a Battleground. The WvWvW has been, frankly, disappointing, so it isn't really a high-priority part of my gaming experience anymore.
I just fail to see what is 'Massive' about GW2. It reminds me a lot of Age of Conan: large zones, separately instanced, with a finite number of people in each instantiation of that zone. As soon as more people want to enter the zone, it starts creating an overflow - just like AoC's shards, albeit with a larger limit. One of the most widespread complaints about the player's experience during this last Beta weekend was that friends and parties became separated during the process of loading a zone. How is this 'Massive'? I know that's a fairly small bug that can be fixed w/r/t partying and guild instances, but it's a technical problem that highlights the very not-Massive design of the game.
Predictably bhavv you are going on and on and on about WoW again. WoW wasn't the first game to have a massive, persistent world - it's just the most recent example of one that reeled in a helluva lot of players. Many other MMO's manage to have a world that is truly shared by a massive number of people. The Massive feeling in GW2 for me is somewhat ruined. Even when you are in a main, capitol city and there are dozens of people around you - isn't that feeling soured by the knowledge you're all basically loaded into a city-sized instance? How is that any more Massive than the towns and cities in GW1? The only difference is that the city design is larger and more intricate.
Like I said, this may not bother some people; if not, good for you. I excitedly pre-ordered GW2, however, because I was under the impression from their pre-release materials that this would truly be a fully-fledged MMO. A huge world I could dive into, surrounded by thousands of players. At the moment, applying that definition liberally, you could maybe say that you 'share a huge world with thousands of players'. What it's more like is that you can be in a questing sandbox with a few hundred other players, maximum, at any one time. It destroys the immersion for me and makes me feel a little bit short-changed. I've said before in this thread that I would rather pay £9 a month and have an MMO world to dive into than pay a one-time fee and feel like I'm playing a technical compromise. There isn't even a Global chat at the moment, ffs, everyone is limited to 'Local'. There isn't even a truly Massive IRC chat!
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It sucks, because the main attraction of WvWvW was its massive-scale PvP, but it seems really as if - to all abilities and spells effect - really it's their 5v5 PvP mechanics applied to a zone with a much larger player capacity. I think it's probably laziness on their part: like they're just porting the code straight from the competitive 5v5 battlegrounds.
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I must admit i found it very frustrating/worrying to find I had to queue to get into WvW combat. I thought the whole point was that it was the whole world vs 2 other full worlds. When in reality its just a bigger version of Alterac Valley with a 3rd faction/team and increased pop caps on the world.
I would say that GW is a MMO in the modern phrase, but it is very much a different thing from the likes of WoW and other persistent world mmo's that do have a much greater 'scale' to them.
Massive(ly) = It's a very large game world. The sizes of the zones aren't exactly small, although you're going to look at it subjectively.
Multiplayer = I think this one is self-explanatory.
Online = Again, self-explanatory
Role-playing = You play a character in a story world that is different from your own.
Game = Game.
It's an MMORPG. Just because you want it to be completely open and seamless doesn't suddenly change the definition. The difference between AoC and GW2 really from what I can see is the scale of the game world.
Video games are all about illusion and making you feel like you're a part of the world that's being portrayed. GW2 does that moreso than AoC by a long shot.
We get it. You don't really like the game. But can you be a little more quiet about it? Just because you can write long, coherent posts doesn't make what you're saying any more valid. You begin with a valid point and then use it to go on some sort of 'sophisticated bashing' of ANet and GW2 in general.
It is a fully-fledged MMO. It is as much an MMO as World of Warcraft or City of Heroes, or Age of Conan, or Star Trek Online, or TERA, or SWTOR or any other for that matter. It's just not what you want.
It is a massive persistent world, even if you don't want to believe it.
What I wanted, simply, was something that would offer the illusion of a large world to drop into, with thousands of other players. That feeling of being in an entirely different world. In GW2 I get the feeling I'm currently in a quest sandbox and that's it, that's the bounds of my current virtual location. If I want to go to another questzone I have to load and connect to a different shard of the server with a different bunch of players in it. I don't really get the feeling of being part of this 'massive', 1000's-strong community: you will never see it or even be connected in any meaningful, virtual way to it. It's strange. Perhaps G4CE is correct and the modern definition of 'MMO' is changing - in which case I'll just play the older ones, np 
Instancing is a solution to a technical challenge.
GW2 is still an MMO even if instancing detracts from your personal feeling of 'open worldness'.
Personally it takes me 5 seconds to load into a new zone and does not bother me. When I cross an instance border and appear in the next area it feels like I have walked across as I could have without the instancing - I do not feel like I am now in a completely different, disconnected place just because I had to load a new bounded area.
Also, a server IS one persistent world, you will all play in the same instances, crossing into a new instance does not separate you from your other server players. The only exception to this is overflow - but it's either overflow or laggy areas on servers that are being hammered by too many players at once or suffer a qeue for your selected server.
MMORPGs have evolved - There are so many more players on them these days so the requirements increase, as do the technical challenges.
GW2 is still an MMO even if instancing detracts from your personal feeling of 'open worldness'.
Personally it takes me 5 seconds to load into a new zone and does not bother me. When I cross an instance border and appear in the next area it feels like I have walked across as I could have without the instancing - I do not feel like I am now in a completely different, disconnected place just because I had to load a new bounded area.
Also, a server IS one persistent world, you will all play in the same instances, crossing into a new instance does not separate you from your other server players. The only exception to this is overflow - but it's either overflow or laggy areas on servers that are being hammered by too many players at once or suffer a qeue for your selected server.
MMORPGs have evolved - There are so many more players on them these days so the requirements increase, as do the technical challenges.
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I cant help but feel that we are being taken down another strange tangent by inkursion. The game is clearly an MMO. By his definitions, even eve online isnt an MMO, and if I was to name one MMO that embodies the "Massively" of the genre's title, it would be eve. So let's leave it at that and discuss the game as I for one will be celebrating the lack of queues and not lamenting their absence.
I get what you are saying, but it is still an MMO.
It does seem MMO's are changing, there have been plenty of games with instanced areas such as Age of Conan, SWTOR, GW1 and Tera etc and it does seem it's the way some of the MMO market is going.
If you don't like the game then you do not like it, nothing can be done about that. You will just have to wait until a game with your expectations comes out, most probably Blizzards new MMO whenever that may be.
We get you have problems with the game though and to be honest they will probably not be fixed/changed as the majority as a whole love the game.
(This bit isn't aimed at you but others.)
It is supposed to be different, which is why so many of us get annoyed when compared with WoW. I played WoW on and off for 6-7+ years and i logged in recently only to log out after 5 minutes as i've had enough of the game. It would be a major downer for me if this game was anything like it as i then wouldn't want to play it.
There are only so many times you can play the same game, that is what seperates the new games to the older ones. a lot of newer games try to copy the olders ones and people have already been there and done it and want something new which is why many recent MMO's have failed.
It does seem MMO's are changing, there have been plenty of games with instanced areas such as Age of Conan, SWTOR, GW1 and Tera etc and it does seem it's the way some of the MMO market is going.
If you don't like the game then you do not like it, nothing can be done about that. You will just have to wait until a game with your expectations comes out, most probably Blizzards new MMO whenever that may be.
We get you have problems with the game though and to be honest they will probably not be fixed/changed as the majority as a whole love the game.
(This bit isn't aimed at you but others.)
It is supposed to be different, which is why so many of us get annoyed when compared with WoW. I played WoW on and off for 6-7+ years and i logged in recently only to log out after 5 minutes as i've had enough of the game. It would be a major downer for me if this game was anything like it as i then wouldn't want to play it.
There are only so many times you can play the same game, that is what seperates the new games to the older ones. a lot of newer games try to copy the olders ones and people have already been there and done it and want something new which is why many recent MMO's have failed.
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I don't dislike GW2, especially not because of the instancing part. That was just an assumption I made about the game when pre-purchasing that turned out to be wrong. A personal disappointment but not game-breaking. I don't think I'm steering the thread down a bad "tangent" really, either. I think it's pretty interesting to discuss the term 'MMO' and just what that means today. There have been some very interesting responses already. I'm not trying to incite some anti-GW2 militia just because there are instance portals; I'm just interrogating its claims for an 'MMO' status, according to my old-fashioned definitions. It's a changing genre, and it's an interesting discussion - at least in my opinion. I don't see how it's any more tangential than the people discussing at-length their PayPal disputes with CJS. You're happy to read that but not happy to read a discussion on 'Massiveness'? Odd.
I'll still play, so long as they fix the technical suggestions highlighted in the Beta. Camera, FOV, melee, etc. All have been repeated here now ad nauseam. It would be interesting if there was some other constructive criticism to discuss. Perhaps even some more videos! Someone posted an Engineer PvP video earlier that was facemelting.
I'll still play, so long as they fix the technical suggestions highlighted in the Beta. Camera, FOV, melee, etc. All have been repeated here now ad nauseam. It would be interesting if there was some other constructive criticism to discuss. Perhaps even some more videos! Someone posted an Engineer PvP video earlier that was facemelting.