Guitar set for complete beginner

SexyGreyFox · 5 Nov 2006 at 20:05

MarcLister said:
Top site that. I rather like the Stat model there. Sounds lovely. The Telecaster is a little twangy for me.

Now for £259 you can buy the Variax 300 that makes all those sounds :eek:

My 71 year old Dad has just bought one and he's well impressed.

SidewinderINC · 5 Nov 2006 at 20:06

MarcLister said:
Noob question but what is an effects pedal and how much are we talking for a decent one?

its exactly what it says on the tin, a pedal (that you'll stomp on with your foot) that will add an effect / change the sound of your guitar either a little, or a lot!

there are litterally hundreds, if not thousands of different ones on the market - most of them are single effects, but some are multi-fx where you'll have a set of different effects in a single unit.

prices.. from £25 to over £1000 (not seen any more than that unless its rack)

the average price i pay on an effects pedal is around £60 per pedal, the most i have spent on a pedal is £109

MarcLister · 5 Nov 2006 at 20:10

dmpoole said:
Now for £259 you can buy the Variax 300 that makes all those sounds
My 71 year old Dad has just bought one and he's well impressed.

Hmm I'd rather get a Strat copy rather than a Telecaster copy and an effects pedal. Need to do some more research. As I said I was told the Squiers were quite good but now OcUK says they vary in build quality massively.

fuz · 5 Nov 2006 at 21:57

MarcLister said:
Thats a Telecaster copy yes? Don't Telecasters sound slightly different to the Stratocaster models? How do they actually sound different?

I own 2 strats and the tele is different yes, but you can get most sounds out of it, for example, Jimmy Page used one for the Stairway to Heaven solo.

MarcLister · 5 Nov 2006 at 23:32

fuz said:
I own 2 strats and the tele is different yes, but you can get most sounds out of it, for example, Jimmy Page used one for the Stairway to Heaven solo.

I'm probably a few million miles off being able to play that. In fact I am, I don't have an electric guitar even.

So what you are saying is that I could get that Telecaster copy you linked to and I'd be able to play all kinds of music and it wouldn't really sound too different from a Strat copy? I have to admit that getting an electric guitar is probably the cheapest 'project' I have at the moment, the others being a 30D and a new iPod/widescreen monitor. However it is the most difficult to get into since I've never really learned how to play the guitar whilst I'm fairly au fait avec iPods, monitors and even cameras. OK not digital SLRs but I've had a digital compact for a while.

Funny you should mention Page, it was whilst listening to some Led Zep over the holidays as well as some Queen that I thought that getting a guitar would be cool.

fuz · 6 Nov 2006 at 11:18

MarcLister said:
I'm probably a few million miles off being able to play that. In fact I am, I don't have an electric guitar even. So what you are saying is that I could get that Telecaster copy you linked to and I'd be able to play all kinds of music and it wouldn't really sound too different from a Strat copy? I have to admit that getting an electric guitar is probably the cheapest 'project' I have at the moment, the others being a 30D and a new iPod/widescreen monitor. However it is the most difficult to get into since I've never really learned how to play the guitar whilst I'm fairly au fait avec iPods, monitors and even cameras. OK not digital SLRs but I've had a digital compact for a while.

Funny you should mention Page, it was whilst listening to some Led Zep over the holidays as well as some Queen that I thought that getting a guitar would be cool.

At the lower end of the range, the difference wouldn't be too great, the strat is the more popular choice for a beginner because of its contoured body and reputation. The tele doesn't have the contours but it is still pretty comfortable to play standing up or sitting down, and the good thing about a cheaper one such as the one at thomann is the ease of swapping new pickups if once you start improving, the stock ones are still pretty good though.

The thing that impressed me the most about it is the real ash body, which is in a big contrast to the squier I had in the early 90s (I got bored with it and sanded it down, to reveal a sort of plywood / agathis 4 part body) and like I said, the action on the tele is lower and more playable than the 2 strats I have (admittedly one of them needs setting up properly as it has been collecting dust for a few years). The neck on the tele is pretty thin, which can be an advantage depending on the kind of stuff you want to play. The page reference was more of a guidline as to what can be played with a telecaster (although it was only used on the studio recording of stairway, he used the double neck live mostly I think). It took me quite a few years to be able to come close to playing stuff like that, although with plenty of practise it is perfectly acheivable, especially with tabs on the internet and online lessons and such, I used to listen to a song, tab it myself and try and learn it until I didn't need the tab (which i'm sure lost me a few years because I could never afford lessons, and I didn't have the internet).

The main difference in sound will come from the amp, depending on what you have to spend, If I were starting out again, I would go for the tele copy and spend the rest on a decent modelling amp, such as the Vox AD30VT which can do a pretty good range of sounds (it struggles at marshall-style metal though) and has some nice effects built in. Alternatively you could go the variax route like DMP said, I've heard a lot of good things about them but I've never tried one, and you could get a guitar port or some kind of software to play it all through the computer if you wanted... I'm kind of old fashioned when it comes to guitar playing though, so my preference is to plug straight into an amp

Sorry for my rambling, i'm bored at work

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 12:16

fuz said:
Holy ruddy great big post maaan.

Hmm still leaning towards a Strat copy despite your best efforts.

What are the box set amps like? My contact says I'd be better starting off with a 30W amp rather than using one of the el-cheapo 10W amps. He reckons I could get a decent 30W amp for about £65-80 I think he said, deffo less than £100.

fuz said:
Sorry for my rambling, i'm bored at work

Apology accepted. I saw the email notification preview in Thunderbird and thought, "Someone's gone to all that trouble for me?!" :cool:

fuz · 6 Nov 2006 at 12:37

If you want a strat copy then i'd recommend staying away from the squier affinity series for a start, it'd mean you'd be paying more but the standard squiers are much better in my experience. You can get them about £30 cheaper by shopping around, thomann do them for around £130, while they are around the £160-170 mark over here.

EDIT: Found one

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_squier_std_strat_mn_ab.htm

I have a Vox AD30 as a practise amp, and it's fine for my needs, you can see it on page 8 and 12 of the gear thread to get an idea of the size and stuff. It's around £120-130

http://www.reidys.com/index.pl?submit=View_PLU&PLU=4757

It really is better paying more when starting out when learning, if you really are serious about playing.. hopefully it'll force you into practising enough to keep you hooked

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 13:19

fuz said:
If you want a strat copy then i'd recommend staying away from the squier affinity series for a start, it'd mean you'd be paying more but the standard squiers are much better in my experience. You can get them about £30 cheaper by shopping around, thomann do them for around £130, while they are around the £160-170 mark over here.

Yeah I'd seen the Affinity Strats and kind of worked it out looking at the prices and some discussions here that the Affinitys were crap. Is it just them where the build quality varies? The Standard Strats are more consistent?

fuz said:
EDIT: Found one

http://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_squier_std_strat_mn_ab.htm

You like that site don't you?

Would never have thought about buying from abroad. I will check and see how much I can save buying from there compared to the British sites I know off.

fuz said:
I have a Vox AD30 as a practise amp, and it's fine for my needs, you can see it on page 8 and 12 of the gear thread to get an idea of the size and stuff. It's around £120-130

http://www.reidys.com/index.pl?submit=View_PLU&PLU=4757

It really is better paying more when starting out when learning, if you really are serious about playing.. hopefully it'll force you into practising enough to keep you hooked

The £120-130 for the amp and the £140 I can afford easily so that shouldn't be a problem. One silly question though, does that amp have a headphone socket? If so what size? My Mum wouldn't want me playing the guitar on the amp. She already has to put up with my brother in the basement room under the living room with his bassy speakers. She would kill one of us if I started playing guitar upstairs.

fuz · 6 Nov 2006 at 14:10

Yeah, I've bought from a lot of online sites but for most stuff, thomann has been the cheapest (apart from gibson / epiphone stuff but that is down to their pricing for retailers)... all the stuff I've bought from there has come in around 3 days, and delivery is pretty cheap now (7 quid for anything below £130, free for anything above)

The standard squiers seem more consistent, although I've only played a few. I owned an affinity for a short while in the mid 90s and it was horrible to say the least. The best one I tried was a late 80s squier, which was japanese made and comparable to many 80s strats at the time (the 80s were a bad decade for USA fenders)

The amp does have an output jack, it'll sound pretty good through a decent pair of headphones. Size is 6.5mm (1/4") standard jack I think

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 15:59

fuz said:
The amp does have an output jack, it'll sound pretty good through a decent pair of headphones. Size is 6.5mm (1/4") standard jack I think

6.3mm perhaps? Having had a look on a cable supplies site they don't have any 6.5mm jacks only 6.3mm.

I've just been on www.guitar.co.uk and they sell what looks like the Fender Squier Strat copy for £349. The same guitar on Thomann and the amp cost £266.35 between them! Even the 66p 6.3mm to 3.5mm only bumps the total cost up to £267.01. :eek:

Only a saving of £81.99 guv'nor. :cool:

SexyGreyFox · 6 Nov 2006 at 17:32

You know that effects pedal we told you about? - you won't need one if you buy one of these little beauts - http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/mod_1....12.1.1/pages/index.php?sku=1.1.1.3.1.1-14-68

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 18:08

dmpoole said:
You know that effects pedal we told you about? - you won't need one if you buy one of these little beauts - http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/mod_1/pages/mod_1.12/pages/mod_1.12.1/pages/mod_1.12.1.1/pages/index.php?sku=1.1.1.3.1.1-14-68

want one!

Would I still get a Strat copy or a Tele? What do you reckon? I think I'd be better with the Strat but I might bow to your wisdom oh great dmpoole and fuz.

Northwind · 6 Nov 2006 at 22:16

The amp in the Squier pack is really, truly rotten. Without redeeming features. Roland Cubes are probably the best practice amps I've ever found, the Cube 15 at £60 eats the Frontman alive. Peter Cooks has the Vox VR15 for £90, it's a valvestate job- never tried the 15 but the bigger ones are excellent. Hey, if you can stretch to it, £110 from Sound Control gets a Line 6 Spider 30.

The Squier Tele Custom and Custom II (humbuckers in the first, P90s in the second) are superb value IMO, they're more consistent than most Squiers and well specced with the Duncan Designed pickups. Peter Cooks has the Custom II for £153. Brilliant buy that, if I was buying an electric tomorrow I'd get one of those. In blonde.

With Yamaha Pacificas, not all are the same... The 112's the legendary one, still a brilliant buy. The 012's much less good, and that's what you usually find in the starter packs.

Tele's not just for twangy country... You can do anything with a good Tele, apart from vibrato- and since they're so simple, a little money can go a long way. They've become one of the emo guitars of choice it seems, everyone's using them, especially Customs with 2 humbuckers- but you find them in all sorts of music.

SexyGreyFox · 6 Nov 2006 at 22:28

Its certainly true that a Tele can get close to other guitar sounds with decent tweaking and effects than most other names can (Strat, SG, Les Paul etc).
In other words you'll never get a Les Paul sound like a Tele but a Tele could get close to a Les Paul.

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 22:38

Northwind said:
The amp in the Squier pack is really, truly rotten. Without redeeming features. Roland Cubes are probably the best practice amps I've ever found, the Cube 15 at £60 eats the Frontman alive. Peter Cooks has the Vox VR15 for £90, it's a valvestate job- never tried the 15 but the bigger ones are excellent. Hey, if you can stretch to it, £110 from Sound Control gets a Line 6 Spider 30.

I kind of deduced that a guitar, amp and accessories kit for less than £150 was slightly iffy. Frontman? Is that another brand of amp? I can afford the £110 and you are the second person in this thread to recommend the Line 6 Spider 30 I think.

Northwind said:
The Squier Tele Custom and Custom II (humbuckers in the first, P90s in the second) are superb value IMO, they're more consistent than most Squiers and well specced with the Duncan Designed pickups. Peter Cooks has the Custom II for £153. Brilliant buy that, if I was buying an electric tomorrow I'd get one of those. In blonde.

Humbuckers?! P90s?! :confused:

You've lost me there. What do those mean?

Northwind said:
Tele's not just for twangy country... You can do anything with a good Tele, apart from vibrato- and since they're so simple, a little money can go a long way. They've become one of the emo guitars of choice it seems, everyone's using them, especially Customs with 2 humbuckers- but you find them in all sorts of music.

You had me with your knowledge and advice. Then you lost me when you said, 'emo'. :mad:

Just joking, so the Tele copy seems quite good then? And you say it is ok for £65? It'll probably be next summer before I'm allowed to do anything but the Tele copy and the Line 6 amp together would be a good starting package?

fuz · 6 Nov 2006 at 22:59

The frontman is a kind of fender amp, in general, the modern cheaper fender amps are not great at all. A decent modelling amp is the best way forward, either a Roland Cube, Line 6 Spider or a Vox Valvetronix will serve you well. I went for the Vox as the clean / AC30 (classic 60s Vox amp) sounds are better than many more expensive amps and go well with my main strat.

Without going into too much detail, humbuckers use two coils that are wound in a way that eliminate the humming noise associated with single coil pickups that you would see in a strat. They are mainly used for heavier sounds, while P90's are a different kind of pickup that are somewhere inbetween the two, I have an Epiphone Les Paul Goldtop with them in and they are IMO the best stock pickups that epiphone do, the sound is quite unique. If I can be bothered I might do a quick recording of the telecaster I got from thomann in the next few days to give you an idea.

MarcLister · 6 Nov 2006 at 23:16

fuz said:
fuz's helpful post

Cheers fuz that'd be good. So a Line 6 Spider and that Tele copy from Thomann would be a good starting off kit? On their current prices that'd be £194.66 together. I'm using the £129 for the Line 6 Spider since I probably won't be buying before the £109 price goes.

That would be a stunning price for a guitar and a quality amp for a beginner.

I know it might be insignificant considering I'm not buying now but what kind of stand would you recommend? Are there any good designs or bad designs to watch out for? I'd like to know so I can put all this stuff into Excel and do some price checking and generally just keeping the info handy.

Northwind · 7 Nov 2006 at 00:23

Can't speak for that Tele, myself... TBH I've never found a new guitar below £100 that I liked much, but that's not to say they don't exist. If I had £200... I'd hope to win this:

No, I'm not selling it, but I've got one just like it

Or I'd just buy this:

Paccy 112

Though in fact, I'd try and stretch that budget to cover the Squier Custom II Tele and the Cube.

But tbh there's loads of good choices these days... Don't buy what people tell you to

Get one that you like the look of, that you think will fit what you want to play, and if you can try it out first- don't be embarassed to try a guitar in a shop when you can't play at all, that's how everyone starts. An afternoon spent walking around Denmark Street would be a good start

Remember to budget for a strap and a lead... You can buy rubbish leads for a couple of quid but I reckon it's worth getting at least something like a Venom, if you've got a half-decent amp. And maybe a wee cheap tuner like a Quik-Tune.

Definately don't rule out a used guitar... Ebay's always a gamble of course, as ever shop carefully. There's always a great moment post-christmas where the unwanted guitars go back on the market

SexyGreyFox · 7 Nov 2006 at 07:17

My rhythm guitarist has got six Gibson SG's but I remembered him coming with a Telecaster one practise and it played really nice (he's a massive Quo fan). Just rang him and its a Squier.
About a month ago my lead guitarist who usually plays three Steve Vai JEMs turned up at practise with a £99 strat that plays really nice. I'll have to ring him see what it is.