Gym Routine

Freefaller · 13 Oct 2004 at 10:06

So let me get this straight... the England rugby team for example - they're pretty fit, they're pretty damned strong, and only usually get injured by getting kicked in the face. Other than that they just do press ups and sit ups all day.... I knew it!

oh by the way Molin, Dan's very much up to scratch on this sort of stuff - I'd pay more attention to his posts before barking on a crusade without understanding the points he's making

asim · 13 Oct 2004 at 13:15

I'm with dan on this.

I dont believe that lifting with just your bodyweight for 100 reps is going to give you the same sort of strength gains as progressively increasing the weights you use with say 10 reps or somethin.

To get bigger you have to lift heavier. Basically when i was younger i use to believe there was a way around this. Change exercises to shock the muscle. Thats garbage. Increase the weight every week, eat more and your gonna grow.

Freefaller · 13 Oct 2004 at 14:11

Originally posted by asim
I'm with dan on this.

I dont believe that lifting with just your bodyweight for 100 reps is going to give you the same sort of strength gains as progressively increasing the weights you use with say 10 reps or somethin.

To get bigger you have to lift heavier. Basically when i was younger i use to believe there was a way around this. Change exercises to shock the muscle. Thats garbage. Increase the weight every week, eat more and your gonna grow.

exactly! let us see - someone who can do 20x 180lbs squats has obviously stronger muscles than someone who can do 10x 300lbs squats!

chompaz · 13 Oct 2004 at 15:34

Who said gymnasts don't do weight training. Absolute rubbish. In order to be the best of the best you have to train beyond your limits. If your saying that a gymnast only uses his/her own bodyweight you are very much mistaken. In order to get the explosive power for such everts as the vault a gymnast will perform few fast reps in events such as squats with a heavy weight same as a 100m sprinter would to get the most explosive start. This doesnt correlate with your theory at all now does it. Gymastics is all about explosive strength and weights play just as big a part as say plymetrics using your own body weight would

The argument you seem to be putting forward is which is healthier explosive strength or endurance strength to which their is no real answer both are just as bad/good as each other for your joints causing stress on the CNS. The main factor in healthy weight training whether it be strength endurance or explosive is maintaining a good cardio vascular level of fitness even if this is maintained just buy walking more.

The more I read this thread the more i am beginning to think you are either a wind up merchant or an extremely ill informed member of the forums in this particular topic anyway.

molin · 13 Oct 2004 at 19:19

Eh ?

What do you mean pay more attention to the posts? No one has made a single point other than to slate my opinion. And hiding behind big words!

You go on about crusade??? What crusade am i on exactly saying that body weight exercises (not just sit ups and press ups ) are superior to weight training??

You keep making distinctions between explosive strength and strength endurance. And saying heavier weights give bigger muscles. And can only resort to taking the **** when defending your beloved weights. Rubbish

You give me an example of an elite athlete who trains with weights only??

The best athletes in the world train with their own weight and don't waste their time with weights, granted they use other resistance devices to improve performance but that aint free weights, which develop the body in an unnatural way by isolating muscles this is not the way the human body was designed to function.

Goatboy · 13 Oct 2004 at 19:31

Re: Eh ?

Originally posted by molin
free weights, which develop the body in an unnatural way by isolating muscles this is not the way the human body was designed to function.

That's just so stupid I don't know where to start. It's impossible to isolate a muscle for one thing. I suppose a bodyweight squat is somehow entirely natural as opposed to a squat with added resistance which is completely unnatural and manages to isolate muscles. I suppose its also unnatural to pick things up, pull things towards you, push things away. I supposed farmers and all other people involved in manual labour who *shudder* lift things are all going destined to die horrible deaths.

The more I read this thread the more i am beginning to think you are either a wind up merchant or an extremely ill informed member of the forums.

Usually I give people the benefit of the doubt but after this last post I'm inclined to agree.

molin · 13 Oct 2004 at 20:06

Posts number does = knowledge

I never said you would die from lifting. You may from the associated risks but not from the practice itself.

You may train in a practical way with weights but this does not take away the fact that they are bad for you.

Ok a weighted squat and a bodyweight squat may look the same and both strengthen muscles. But when u add tremendous weight the tendons and ligaments just get harmed and result in injuries. The bodyweight squat strengthens all three and give them all explosive power. Whereas the strong muscles and weak joint combination derived from heavy squats of course produces a feeling of explosiveness because the muscles have to work so damn hard to compensate for the weak links.

This is true for most weight training movements, only the muscles are being trained and not the whole body. Hence the numerous injuries associated. Of course many many movements have value but most just take the wrong approach.

Oh yes and do you think a farmer conforms to bodybuilding movements as he works i dontthink so he uses his whole body and lifts and pulls in an entirely natural way not sitting his ass on a machine.

Since when does arguing with a flawed and soon to be debunked training method make you ill informed. I suppose everyone on earth who doesn't think like you is ill informed as well.

Still waiting on the case for the tremendous benefits of weight training/bodybuilding when the childish comebacks have run out!!

Goatboy · 13 Oct 2004 at 20:17

Re: Eh ?

Originally posted by molin
The best athletes in the world train with their own weight and don't waste their time with weights

Wrong, you won't find a single sprinter that doesn't use weight training. Ben Johnson for example could squat 400lbs and I seem to remember him moving pretty quick. Try entering words weight training and athletes into google and see how many articles you get giving reasons why athelete should use weight training. Even footballers weight train.

I never said you would die from lifting. You may from the associated risks

and what are those associated risks?

But when u add tremendous weight the tendons and ligaments just get harmed and result in injuries.

What evidence do you have of this?

he uses his whole body and lifts and pulls in an entirely natural way not sitting his ass on a machine.

Sitting his ass on a machine, since when was anyone talking about using machines. Farmers lift and carry. Do you think a deadlift is an unnatural movement, its the exact movement people use to pick things up.

Since when does arguing with a flawed and soon to be debunked training method make you ill informed. I suppose everyone on earth who doesn't think like you is ill informed as well.

Flawed - what are those flaws then explain them.

soon to be debunked - by who? I assume your about to enlighten us with the basis for this debunking...

BrenOS · 13 Oct 2004 at 20:20

This thread has been a most entertaining read.

I'm off to drink a bottle of vodka, smoke 20 fags and *shudder* do some free weights

oddjob62 · 13 Oct 2004 at 20:50

Re: Superman

Originally posted by molin
Do you think you could honestly generate more bodily force than a gymnast or ballet dancer who never go near weights.

Let me ask you summin how many injuries do you have from lifting.....be honest!!!

Hmmm sooooo gymnasts and ballet dancers never get injured eh?

Originally posted by molin
This is true for most weight training movements, only the muscles are being trained and not the whole body. Hence the numerous injuries associated. Of course many many movements have value but most just take the wrong approach.

That may be the case in a badly written program, it's true that a lot of people go to the gym and do the old bench/biceps/abs workout, or religiously stick to machine, but i think you'll find that none of the lads who give advice here advise these things and mainly tell people to stick to the big compound exercises.

eg. most of my training revolves around
Squats
Deadlifts
Cleans
Snatches
Overhead Squats.

None of these involve "sitting my ass on a machine".
Please tell me which muscles i am "isolating" with these exercises.

Tesla · 13 Oct 2004 at 22:30

I've just joined the gym.

The guy there is cool and I told him what sports i play and what I want to achieve from going to the gym and he has written me up a program and it gets revised every couple of weeks.

Not lifting much weight at all at the moment but 15mins on the treadmill 3 times a week is already showing its benefits on the pitch,

Ben S · 14 Oct 2004 at 13:32

Im with Dan here, my brother is a bodybuilder, he's about 6' 3 and around 20 stone and has been doing it for maybe 15 years now, i've lived with him for the most of my 27 years and he competed in the south of uk championships last year (got 3rd). These type of guys really now what theyre doing in the gym and just from living with him i know enough about it to say you will never get as strong just by using your own body weight, than you could by lifting loads for small reps.

Btw i just got Markus Ruhl's dvd, omg :eek:

if your into bodybuilding you need to see this.

#Chri5# · 14 Oct 2004 at 13:58

The best athletes in the world train with their own weight and don't waste their time with weights, granted they use other resistance devices to improve performance but that aint free weights, which develop the body in an unnatural way by isolating muscles this is not the way the human body was designed to function.

Any more tosh to spout? Let's have a snippet of Matthew Pinsent's training routine shall we? You might not consider him elite but he's not got a bad reputation in a rowing boat:

Two or three times a week, we'll spend our second session of the day in the gym.

Our gym is specifically set up for rowing, there aren't too many machines - mostly free weights.

We'll lift heavy weights for five or six reps to increase our power.

asim · 15 Oct 2004 at 23:22

Originally posted by Ben S

Btw i just got Markus Ruhl's dvd, omg if your into bodybuilding you need to see this.

Yea im totally into bodybuilding. Got his dvd among many many others.

Markus Ruhl is a true freak, watch how heavy he goes on the leg press, or incline smith press. Its truly incredible.

shez · 17 Oct 2004 at 19:03

Molin you argument is totally flawed. I have done pure body weight training, no additional weights or anything. (this was before i was 16) I was doing 3 sets of 100 press ups and situps everyday. Addmittedly i was in good shape, but i wasn't big, just toned. Thats all body weight training did, tone me up. As soon as i turned 16 i joined the gym, and did a 2 month bulk up before the rugby season. I have just finnished it now, i put 1.5 stones on in pure muscle, i never had that kind of growth with body weight traning. Coincidence ? I think not.

molin · 18 Oct 2004 at 10:17

Discussion not argument !!!

Shez I never once said that bodyweight exercises make you big, just strong. Lifting weights doesnt make you big either, its how much food you eat that determines the size of your muscles.

I have only stated that bodyweight exercises have a lot of value, more than most people realise. These are not limited to pushups and situps either. I refer to hindu squats, hindu pushups, bridging, handstand pushups, one legged squats, reverse pushups, bear crawling etc.

All the weight lifters get all defensive when I state that these movements have value in my opinion. Im not trying to convince any of you because you have your own opinions as well which is fine.

Goatboy · 18 Oct 2004 at 10:33

That's a very sudden about turn you made there

One minute weight training is evil, will hurt you, is ineffective, is not used by athletes, unnatural, a myth thats about to be debunked, isolate muscles, etc. etc.

Next minute you say you only stated was that bodyweight exercises have a lot of value.

No one ever said there was anything wrong with bodyweight exercuses, things like Hindu squats, Janda situps, Turkish get-ups are great. Nobody was being defensive just correcting you on the unsubstantiated bull**** you were spouting.

molin · 18 Oct 2004 at 10:59

Repeat.....

How could I state anything other than my own opinion. I never once slated anything you said as rubbish, recognising that it was your opinion which you are entitled to. Doesnt mean I suddenly agree with you.

Everyone seems to enjoy ganging up rather than have an open discussion of opinions. If you could see the posts for what they are, and not attacks on your firmly held beliefs you might get somewhere but this post like the rest will be slated and misunderstood for its 'toshness'.

Yawn!!!!!!!

Goatboy · 18 Oct 2004 at 11:07

No you stated many things as if they were facts, if you look at the bottom of page 1 you'll see I quoted your statements and asked you to provide an explanation of these claims, something which you conveniently managed to miss - suprise, suprise.

Who gave opinions, all you did was rubbish weight training and show complete ignorance, when questioned you completey ignore direct questions and instead waffle about opinions and disagreements, this whole thread has been people responding to the nonsense you've been talking, not 'ganging up' on anyone.

You claim so much yet fail to back any of it up.

#Chri5# · 18 Oct 2004 at 11:31

I have only stated that bodyweight exercises have a lot of value, more than most people realise.

No you didn't, you said:

The best athletes in the world train with their own weight and don't waste their time with weights

Would you like fries or apple pie with that U-turn sir?

You need to conceal your bate-and-switch tactic better than that in the future.

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