Harmless 39 year old alcoholic woman tortured and beaten to death by girls aged 13 and 14.

The Running Man said:
If the uk criminal system was just we would use consecutive rather concurrent sentences in every case.
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Of course that depends on your definition of "just". As far as I can tell, anyone saying that a punishment should be "just" usually follows up with "as harsh as possible", which I'm fairly certain is not the same thing.


Interestingly, there is currently another thread in this forum about teens transitioning. Most people in that thread don't seem to believe that anyone under about 20 can properly decide what gender they are. But a lot of people in this forum are seriously suggesting that someone aged 13 properly understands right from wrong. Does anyone else see the problem here? Aged (say) 14, I can good from bad, but I don't know what gender I am? It seems to me that at least one of those is wrong. Also, I'm fairly certain that some people here are confusing "knows what is right and wrong" with "knows what will get them punished". They are not the same thing, although the difference shows where the problem lies. People are not born knowing morals, they are taught them. Nature and nurture are involved, but nurture usually wins.
 
arknor said:
most burglars don't want to stop because it's easy money.

Source half my friends were robbing houses from the age of 15, after robbing sheds/garages for power tools from the age of like 13

you need to rehabilitate before it's too late, once they are 16 they are pretty much career criminals already.

blame poverty
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Yes, I agree. It's why cutting back on social services and youth programmes end up with higher crime rates, esp in lower income areas.

And why some schools should be given way more funding.

It's also why people who get caught burgling, or are in that cycle of drug use and stealing should be given an out ball that's doesn't escalate crime.

But it's never too late for these type of criminals. They're not bad people.
 
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Meridian said:
Of course that depends on your definition of "just". As far as I can tell, anyone saying that a punishment should be "just" usually follows up with "as harsh as possible", which I'm fairly certain is not the same thing.


Interestingly, there is currently another thread in this forum about teens transitioning. Most people in that thread don't seem to believe that anyone under about 20 can properly decide what gender they are. But a lot of people in this forum are seriously suggesting that someone aged 13 properly understands right from wrong. Does anyone else see the problem here? Aged (say) 14, I can good from bad, but I don't know what gender I am? It seems to me that at least one of those is wrong. Also, I'm fairly certain that some people here are confusing "knows what is right and wrong" with "knows what will get them punished". They are not the same thing, although the difference shows where the problem lies. People are not born knowing morals, they are taught them. Nature and nurture are involved, but nurture usually wins.
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So when said 13 year old or 14 year old walk down the street, do they see people being killed, tortured or maimed left right and center?

Do they see people being stabbed, smashed with a TV while they beg for mercy? I'm going to say no to all of the above. It is simply not a common occurrence. There is no example if this being morally right or acceptable.

Therefore they *know* its not normal. They know its not right.

They might not have figured it would cost them their lives if caught but they knew it not to be a righteous act in any sense.

If 13 year olds were truly that confused wouldn't we habe thousands of murders by pre teen kids every day?
 
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Any teenagers who can commit such a sick crime are pure evil, wounder how they will turn out when they are older. The victim is dead but these 2 girls will out in about 8 years or so, new names, houses ect....
 
inogen said:
But it's never too late for these type of criminals. They're not bad people.
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by that logic they are good people if they are not bad?

These are bad people who have done bad things and should face the consequence but society/the system should try and rehabilitate so they are "good" people for a functional society
 
deuse said:
I can't help it if your a soft touch.
Me. I would have them shot after 3 days once proven guilty.
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what are you talking about? I’m simply pointing out how silly your original point was that this only happened in the UK.

I hardly think you have the stones to shoot anyone, so less of the hard man talk.
 
hurfdurf said:
what are you talking about? I’m simply pointing out how silly your original point was that this only happened in the UK.

I hardly think you have the stones to shoot anyone, so less of the hard man talk.
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This did happen in the UK.
So my point stands Huurrr Durrrfff :)
You don't have to be tough to pull a trigger ;)
 
Diagro said:
They knew they were wrong.

Especially as they asked how long a prison sentence was for murder...
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No no they were just confused. Good people just wasn't sure that killing another person was a bad thing.

Infact they shouldn't be punished at all! Blame someone else, it was 'the state' , it was anyone but them.
 
A horrific incident with a vulnerable lass brutally murdered by two teenagers clearly without morals or empathy. One wonders what their upbringing was although I have a feeling they were chip off the block of similarly minded parents.
 
jsmoke said:
How can people be so harsh on 13 and 14 years olds who have been in care homes. You've no idea what they have been through. I struggle to believe they are fully accountable for their actions.
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Not to worry then ay? Just turn the other way, brutally murdering someone. Geesh some of you are proper special. Lets blame the upbringing. As if thats an excuse. Hah.
 
jsmoke said:
How can people be so harsh on 13 and 14 years olds who have been in care homes. You've no idea what they have been through. I struggle to believe they are fully accountable for their actions.
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what percent of people from care homes commit torture and murder?
0.01%?

you've no idea what they have been though either
 
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