Has anyone tried professional career advice?

[Magiccarpet]

I am stuck in entry level customer service. After trying variety of career ideas, all the typical advice, researching and educating myself, going to uni, studying courses on my own, now I am at middle age and no matter what I simply cannot progress beyond entry level customer service.

These jobs are well below my ability and it's so embarrassing but no one is giving me a break. So rather than trying to do something about it and failing yet again would professional (paid) career coaching work. I'm 39 and now have enough money to afford such a venture, and would be interested to hear educated and informed opinions on it. And what my budget should be.

Many thanks

 

[d_brennen]

What are they going to tell you? Apply for positions you are suited for. Graft until you get there.

£500 please

 

[Magiccarpet]

What are they going to tell you? Apply for positions you are suited for. Graft until you get there.

£500 please

That's been my experience with free advice. e.g. Joe Public's take on careers.
Obviously sometimes you can find a job and count on falling into a career path, unfortunately I am not getting that opportunity. The only work I can get is high turnover, low skill, minimum wage. It's impossible to get your foot in the door anywhere and I'm tired of people thinking all you need is tough love and bootstraps. Hence the professional option

 

[d_brennen]

That's been my experience with free advice. e.g. Joe Public's take on careers.
Obviously sometimes you can find a job and count on falling into a career path, unfortunately I am not getting that opportunity. The only work I can get is high turnover, low skill, minimum wage. It's impossible to get your foot in the door anywhere and I'm tired of people thinking all you need is tough love and bootstraps. Hence the professional option

Good luck and post your results here for other's benefit. I don't mean to come across as a get on ya bike type but that is what worked for me and pretty much everyone I know...

If the area you live in really doesn't have the jobs and you aren't willing to commute, the obvious answer is to move where there are jobs suitable for you

 

[Magiccarpet]

Good luck and post your results here for other's benefit. I don't mean to come across as a get on ya bike type but that is what worked for me and pretty much everyone I know...

If the area you live in really doesn't have the jobs and you aren't willing to commute, the obvious answer is to move where there are jobs suitable for you

Honestly I do follow you. In a perfect world you pick a company and just get on with it. Now I'm 40 doing the same jobs at 20. Moved around a bit which obviously hasn't helped. But anyone who meets me can tell these are jobs better suited for young people. It's all a bit of a joke this.

Don't want to spend my life savings to be told to get out there. Still what else is there to do. This shouldn't be that hard. All I want is some more responsibility.

 

[Semple]

What skills and qualifications do you have? This will give people an idea of what types of careers you're interested in, and what you might need to do in order to get a foot in the door. I.e. No point in someone recommending you get a job in IT if you did a degree in nursing and hate computers.

 

[Mr Badger]

If you have the relevant qualifications, have you identified what the real barrier is to your progressing? I'm not saying that bad luck/genuine lack of opportunity isn't a factor, but after 20 years it seems likely there is at least one common denominator. For example could any of the following apply?

• You aren't really prepared to take risks and so haven't applied for the right roles, pushed to do more or taken chances when they occur
• You do apply for new roles and responsibilities but don't interview well and so do not get offered the job
• You're good at getting on with the job, but poor at soft skills such as networking, self promotion and general workplace politics that can open doors
• You have serious body odour, weird habits or some other personal issue that clouds how people value you
• You aren't as good as you think you are and your colleagues and potential employers just don't see you as having anything more to offer

 

[Magiccarpet]

What skills and qualifications do you have? This will give people an idea of what types of careers you're interested in, and what you might need to do in order to get a foot in the door. I.e. No point in someone recommending you get a job in IT if you did a degree in nursing and hate computers.

Most of my skills and qualifications are generally light IT. My best skill is probably analysis, not simply computers but concepts, trends, problems, opportunities. I hold an NVQ and foundation degree in media/graphic design stuff (tried to be a web dev), some SQL, some IT repair courses, a page of general computer qualifications, passed the A+ recently and am working on my N+, aim is the CCNA.

I know that is really poor considering my age but I never had the confidence or the money to do this before. I also screwed up my education. It was a crappy uni but completely my fault nonetheless.

Not trying to be disrespectful either but when you work in customer service-type environments these skills are really useful. People think you are magical computer man when you navigate directories in the command prompt. Last week I saved my supervisor 3 hours of work every week by showing them you can use filters on Excel. Just wait until they see the tracert command in action.

You would think that kind of simple computer literacy would get you around but if anything it gets me more exploited. If I create a spreadsheet template or some primitive application, middle management will throw it around like a toy until they get bored. In CS environments they are always using horrible software. I will master it and everyone else comes to me with problems. Then some contract disaster happens and people get the chop or squeezed out. This happens a lot when you're on the bottom.

Anyway hope you liked my life story but my question is really about if professional advice works. It's all good saying you've got to get out there and just sort yourself out or whatever but at the end of the day I'm in my 40s and all that strategy has got me is back to square one. It's not like I come from an IT or graphic design background and can pull a few strings. I have some talents but have also made some bad choices and don't really have anything solid to offer apart from customer service experience. All I know there is more to life than wearing a headset and saying welcome you're through to customer service 50 times a day. In your 40s.

 

[Mr Badger]

I'm 39 and now have enough money to afford such a venture

It's all good saying you've got to get out there and just sort yourself out or whatever but at the end of the day I'm in my 40s and all that strategy has got me is back to square one.

Would you say that attention to detail is one of your strong points?

 

[Magiccarpet]

If you have the relevant qualifications, have you identified what the real barrier is to your progressing? I'm not saying that bad luck/genuine lack of opportunity isn't a factor, but after 20 years it seems likely there is at least one common denominator. For example could any of the following apply?

• You aren't really prepared to take risks and so haven't applied for the right roles, pushed to do more or taken chances when they occur
• You do apply for new roles and responsibilities but don't interview well and so do not get offered the job
• You're good at getting on with the job, but poor at soft skills such as networking, self promotion and general workplace politics that can open doors
• You have serious body odour, weird habits or some other personal issue that clouds how people value you
• You aren't as good as you think you are and your colleagues and potential employers just don't see you as having anything more to offer

These are all fair comments, they're good common sense and things I have seriously considered. But if those are your honest thoughts you need to understand I don't come from the same place as you, that some workplaces aren't very sensible, and when you're trapped in them you're not going to get around easily no matter how hard you try.

This is the main thing that attracts me to getting a professional opinion. I appreciate that another person wants to help but that same person is going to have illusions, biases and knowledge gaps. When you are really stuck down there with no progression prospects at all it is really bad. The last thing you want to hear are the same things that led you to where that place is even if they are well meant.

 

[Magiccarpet]

Would you say that attention to detail is one of your strong points?

Damn! You got me. My real age is 9. Happy now?

 

[explicit4u]

These are all fair comments, they're good common sense and things I have seriously considered. But if those are your honest thoughts you need to understand I don't come from the same place as you, that some workplaces aren't very sensible, and when you're trapped in them you're not going to get around easily no matter how hard you try.

This is the main thing that attracts me to getting a professional opinion. I appreciate that another person wants to help but that same person is going to have illusions, biases and knowledge gaps. When you are really stuck down there with no progression prospects at all it is really bad. The last thing you want to hear are the same things that led you to where that place is even if they are well meant.

In what way are you trapped in the workplace?

A+ Will get you into entry level IT roles like the servicedesk/1st line support/desktop support, your CS experience will help a lot here too. It's not very demanding so you should have time to carry on with your N+ and eventually get a CCNA if you decide it's right for you (if you have some networking experience and knowledge I'd jump straight to the CCNA).

From the information provided I don't see what's holding you back, if your workplace sucks then update your CV and start interviewing elsewhere.

 

[Magiccarpet]

In what way are you trapped in the workplace?

A+ Will get you into entry level IT roles like the servicedesk/1st line support/desktop support, your CS experience will help a lot here too. It's not very demanding so you should have time to carry on with your N+ and eventually get a CCNA if you decide it's right for you (if you have some networking experience and knowledge I'd jump straight to the CCNA).

Would you, as an employer, hold the same hiring policy? Would your employer? Any employer you know as such?

This is the entire reason professional advice sounds better. Rather than become contaminated with chest-thumping principles, which I never asked for in the first place, is going to a professional careers advisor a good idea?

 

[explicit4u]

Would you, as an employer, hold the same hiring policy? Would your employer? Any employer you know as such?

This is the entire reason professional advice sounds better. Rather than become contaminated with chest-thumping principles, which I never asked for in the first place, is going to a professional careers advisor a good idea?

I'm not sure I understand what your first paragraph is asking me? That's literally the path I took to get into a job I enjoy from a customer service role. I didn't use a professional advice service, i just read threads on here from others in a similar position, found roles that sounded interesting, watched youtube videos to see what the day to day was like and then put the work in to get the qualifications i needed to get the job.

I'm sure there are many people who have had great success using a careers advisor but I struggle to see where you'd get better advice than on a board like this where you're speaking to people from all walks of life, many of whom have been where you are right now.

What do you think a careers advisor is going to do exactly?

 

[Mr Badger]

What do you think a careers advisor is going to do exactly?

Tell him to become an HGV driver?

 

[Josh]

Would you, as an employer, hold the same hiring policy? Would your employer? Any employer you know as such?

1000's of employers do this. The thing is though no-one is going to just give you a job, you need to apply and show you're willing and able etc, show they you want to progress and be hungry for it. I see Recruiters all the time asking me if I need 1st/2nd line positions filling.

My company hired a 62 year old bloke for 2nd line recently who is half as qualified as you.

You don't need to pay someone to tell you you to crack on, you just need to start applying for jobs you want and plan where you want to be in IT in 2,5,7 years.

 

[Dolph]

Would you, as an employer, hold the same hiring policy? Would your employer? Any employer you know as such?

This is the entire reason professional advice sounds better. Rather than become contaminated with chest-thumping principles, which I never asked for in the first place, is going to a professional careers advisor a good idea?

My view, you don't need professional advice, you need a mentor. You clearly have desires, you've taken steps to try and get your career moving, but for some reason it's not fully delivered the results you were hoping for. What's needed now is to work with someone with experience and seniority to find out why.

Looking to see if your employer offers any form of mentoring is one option. Likewise if you have anyone in your social circle who could support you, that's another option.

Alternatively, feel free to PM me, and we can have a deeper chat. I started where you are, moving through various corporate roles across HR and reporting, through data strategy and am in the process of transitioning now to a senior leadership role with a new employer (which after being with the same one for nearly 20 years is a little daunting). I've had the advantage of people mentoring me, both formally and informally, and it can really help. Mentoring isn't like coaching or training, there's more of a personal relationship so finding the right mentor who works well with you isn't always straightforward, but it really can help.

 

[HangTime]

These are all fair comments, they're good common sense and things I have seriously considered. But if those are your honest thoughts you need to understand I don't come from the same place as you, that some workplaces aren't very sensible, and when you're trapped in them you're not going to get around easily no matter how hard you try

The way you've responded this this implies that perhaps you aren't casting the net wide enough - sure there may be workplaces that "aren't very sensible" but arguably that suggests you need push even harder on pursuing different roles.
Training, research, education etc is all well and good but sometimes it is about getting your foot in the door and then using that as a springboard. When I was in my early 20s I spent four years in a rubbish job that didn't utilise my talents with little in the way of transferrable skills. I struggled to move on and felt 'trapped' in a similar way to what you described because I was working with a lot of niche/proprietary stuff that made it difficult to articulate to prospective employers how complex the job I was doing was, how much responsibility I had, and what skills I could carry forward. Once I managed to move out of that job my career accelerated much more rapidly, not because I had magically become more adept but because it was easier for employers to relate to the experience I had.

My personal view is that when you are 'at the bottom' and over-qualified, pursuing more qualifications doesn't help that much - it just makes you even more over-qualified. Of course there are exceptions where specific training is a requirement of certain jobs but in general what is holding you back isn't a piece of paper it is something else. Aggressively pursue new opportunities that are different from what you currently do and maybe out of 50 job applications you get 8 interviews and one offer.

To address your original question, I am a bit torn on this one. On the one hand, I personally don't think a random career adviser is going to be particularly great and offer much more than you can get for free online. Personally I've never used one nor have the intention to use one in future. On the flipside, it sounds like you've tried quite a lot already and if it gets you out of the rut, it could be money well spent.

 

[HangTime]

Most of my skills and qualifications are generally light IT. My best skill is probably analysis, not simply computers but concepts, trends, problems, opportunities. I hold an NVQ and foundation degree in media/graphic design stuff (tried to be a web dev), some SQL, some IT repair courses, a page of general computer qualifications, passed the A+ recently and am working on my N+, aim is the CCNA.

Just blast out the applications for 1st/2nd line IT support roles in medium/large size organisation. Unlike a lot of applicants for IT roles you have a strong background in customer service which is what they often want, for these type of roles they do not want IT expertise, they want people who can speak to the user, log faults, follow a script, do some basic triage and fix common problems. The key thing is providing the employer is big enough they will have opportunities to progress into more senior support roles and then beyond that potentially into non-support IT roles. You've got recent qualifications that you can point to to demonstrate your enthusiasm and put their minds at rest about why you are entering this sector at 40 and not 20.

 

[Magiccarpet]

Just blast out the applications for 1st/2nd line IT support roles in medium/large size organisation. Unlike a lot of applicants for IT roles you have a strong background in customer service which is what they often want, for these type of roles they do not want IT expertise, they want people who can speak to the user, log faults, follow a script, do some basic triage and fix common problems. The key thing is providing the employer is big enough they will have opportunities to progress into more senior support roles and then beyond that potentially into non-support IT roles.

I have got out there. In the last several years I've applied to several thousand jobs, this year only 200. If you're telling me to just get a customer service job and work my way up, that's been my strategy for 20 years, working hard, making friends, never made any serious mistakes, received written praise, volunteered, have awards in volunteering, studied, hold plenty of qualifications, next year I'm 40, and still the only places that will hire me are entry level, no experience required, customer service jobs with no progression opportunities. My focus for this and next year is to stop the applications and start figuring out what is going so wrong. This isn't decent, let alone fair, I'm way too old and experienced to be working these gigs, no one is invested in coming to my aid or wants to give me a chance so why not pay money to get help is my thinking.

Aggressively pursue new opportunities that are different from what you currently do and maybe out of 50 job applications you get 8 interviews and one offer.

That's common sense, jobs don't get handed to you on a plate, but I am talking about one interview every 2, 3, 400 applications and rarely getting to the second stage or a reply. I've had doors literally slammed in my face or been laughed at in my face, a couple of times companies have interviewed me literally to take the ****, this isn't about playing the poor me victim but it's hard to convey how difficult my position is, people can get really nasty to you when you're on the bottom and being exploited all the time isn't much fun either.
And again my intention is to talk about professional career advice rather than myself. I think the more you interrogate me the more brutal it will start to look. Applying to more jobs and crossing my fingers that anything will pull through isn't my plan anymore and I want to build an approach with more quality.

Alternatively, feel free to PM me, and we can have a deeper chat. I started where you are, moving through various corporate roles across HR and reporting, through data strategy and am in the process of transitioning now to a senior leadership role with a new employer (which after being with the same one for nearly 20 years is a little daunting). I've had the advantage of people mentoring me, both formally and informally, and it can really help. Mentoring isn't like coaching or training, there's more of a personal relationship so finding the right mentor who works well with you isn't always straightforward, but it really can help.

Thank you Dolph, that's nice of you to offer. I appreciate what you're saying about mentoring. In the same vein it's a little suspicious to me. I'm perfectly capable of thinking for myself and developing my own ideas. However my experience with mentoring is quite limited and they don't usually offer programs or pathways as such if you work in customer service. All the best in your new role.