Has Jose Mourinho lost it?

[opethdisciple]

Lol. Only recently laughing with my mate at how poor United are under Mourinho.

As an Arsenal fan this pleases me immensely.

HOWEVER.... you still finished second with what 82 points?! So that's not to be sniffed at.

You maybe boring and playing some uninspiring football, but Mourinho is getting the job done. That is one of results and climbing up the league.

Hard to argue with it really.

 

[shipinabottle]

Lol. Only recently laughing with my mate at how poor United are under Mourinho.

As an Arsenal fan this pleases me immensely.

HOWEVER.... you still finished second with what 82 points?! So that's not to be sniffed at.

You maybe boring and playing some uninspiring football, but Mourinho is getting the job done. That is one of results and climbing up the league.

Hard to argue with it really.

Nobody who believes Maureen should be gone are arguing this to be fair

However context matters and in the fans eyes so do actual performances. The problem is the board will rest on the above unless they are ambitious (smart?) enough to realise how the landscape has moved away from the Maureen type managers. This happened after Fergie and we went for a Moyes (basically a crap Maureen) and then decided to go for a philosophical/progressive manager (the wrong one that didn't pan out, but still at least creative appointment) and now we've resorted back to plan A v2.0. Nobody on the board is looking at what the top teams are doing and going oh yeah, we see what's happening here...

They are looking purely at the bottom line and at the moment the bottom line is green, but long term 10 years it could be pretty bad. But I guess who cares when you're a 50-70 year old rich bloke who's riding a fortune to retirement.

 

[Steedie]

I so want him gone he makes me so angry these days. 2nd place feels pretty hollow given how far we were behind City and given that Liverpool are on the up.

He won't go though, why would he? He'll be here for this season, then when he wins nothing again, he'll stay for the pay off and leave us with a load of 30 something buys that have no value and have lost their legs, meanwhile shipping off or breaking the soul of all our young and promising talent like Martial.

I don't care what anyone says, Martial is brilliant, and he's usually about the only player willing to try anything exciting, he has a **** attitude on him lately but it's understandable given the treatment he's had since Sanchez has come in, he was on a run of good form scoring and playing well, only to be dropped the second Sanchez arrived, despite his terrible performances. Rashford doesn't excite me as much, he runs in to a lot of bad positions and doesn't see the obvious pass a lot of times but again, part of me thinks that's because Mourinho is so inconsistent with him.

And on Sanchez...Please go, he's just awful. Like Rooney was in the last couple of seasons, puts all the effort in but lacks any kind of end product and loses the ball all the time

I have no idea who we'd get to replace him though

 

[Maundie]

I don't think he has lost it I just think the game has evolved but he hasn't, it is so fast and fluid now that his lumbering shut them out tactics are just shown up to be antiquated.

He is a rich mans Allardyce in my eyes, just buys the players Big Sam only wishes he was able to afford.

I was talking to my mate who's a Wolves fan and said that I'd be livid if I was a Man U fan as sometimes Fergie would shut up shop but it was usually only against the teams he knew were better than his, Maureen does it against everyone!

 

[fez]

I was talking to my mate who's a Wolves fan and said that I'd be livid if I was a Man U fan as sometimes Fergie would shut up shop but it was usually only against the teams he knew were better than his, Maureen does it against everyone!

Fergie shut up shop against pretty much every team he thought was close to United in class. Honestly I don't remember too many games against our title rivals under Fergie where I felt confident and where we didn't play defensively and hope to nick a goal. Same in the CL. Fergie was so good and won so many titles because he would beat pretty much every lower team in the league. Thats what wins you the title. Our record against the top 5 this season is good I think. The problem has been losing to random **** teams we should be smashing.

I think Mourinho gets one more season and if he doesn't win anything of note or get us playing good football then he goes. He will have had 3 years to build the team he wants and had the money to buy almost anyone he wants. There is no excuse about the squad being **** after 3 years.

 

[sigma]

Can't really compare to the past, it's unfair - we had far better players than we do now and also other teams were not as strong.

There's no denying that we're in a better place league-wise and made it to the cup final etc but I think now we'll see him go for his usual plaster-over-the-cracks approach rather than build the team for the future and I guess we'll be back in the same place at the end of next season if we don't win anything. Realistically the league will be won by City again - they're only going to grow stronger if Pep's history is anything to go by...

 

[The Running Man]

Yeah but how do you excuse losing to Seville.

Lukaku cost more than their entire squad.

 

[FrankJH]

wih LVG Utd were going backwards fast in the league, he may have left on the day we won the FA Cup (if that truelly means anything any more) but was good riddance.

I still think SAF messed Utd up for a good 3-4 years by leaving the majority of the team on its last legs, not helped at all by the inept hiring of Moyes, chasing the wrong targets for 2 years, and majority of those that did come in didn't work at all and have already been shipped out or arguably on their way out.

At least we have 4 - 5 "kids" who could fill out the squad , but will be interesting to see if / how they get blooded in the 1st team given that we cant afford to give points away to the likes of West Brom/ Huddersfield / Brighton / West Ham / etc etc

top 4 has become top 6 ( ie for the most part anyone is capable of beating anyone else, and it comes down to the day itself with fitness/ injuries and even to some extent current form.

Unfortunately for the fans, its becoming more and more evident that actually on pitch performances doesn't matter, and the business brings in healthy profits even with diverging performances like this season. As long as Utd get CL every year, the trophies don't matter a jot (Woodward said this the other day in the latest investor / media call). Utd even got paid more than City by the Premier League - thanks to being on TV more often. Admittedly we "lost" quite a bit of cash from CL this year because of coming through the Euopa final rather than getting the place through the league, but hopefully that's a one off.

There is too much work to do in one summer, even without taking into account the world cup (at least we should be able to ship some out during this time if they haven't already gone before it starts),

At least three defenders are needed - possibly four with the weird Bailly situation - two central mids, right winger and backup striker (as Martial and Rashford have both proved that they are much better currently coming from the left than working centrally, and Sanchez is invisible in the important areas in most games no matter where he plays)

JM deserves one more season - especially given how successful he was during 16/17, but HAS to go if we aren't still gunning for the EPL /CL well into March /April at the very least. That's of course if he makes it that far given its his 3rd season...….



How Utd are still fielding a back four signed by SAF (not to mention to converted wingers) as 1st choice , given how bad they all are - this long after he departed is beyond reasonable explanation.

 

[placeholder]

wih LVG Utd were going backwards fast in the league, he may have left on the day we won the FA Cup (if that truelly means anything any more) but was good riddance.

I still think SAF messed Utd up for a good 3-4 years by leaving the majority of the team on its last legs, not helped at all by the inept hiring of Moyes, chasing the wrong targets for 2 years, and majority of those that did come in didn't work at all and have already been shipped out or arguably on their way out.

The Moyes appointment was a huge error but that's the only thing you can lay at the door of Ferguson. He left the club at the top and Champions by 11 points and he left a blank cheque to be spent by the new manager. You really cant do more than that. The team Fergie left is constantly knocked but in his last 4 years they had two titles and two runners up spots. The two 2nd places were by a point and a goal.

It isn't Sir Alex Fergusons fault that he could win with a set of players that other managers couldn't. He had no need to make changes to the squad because he was lifting league titles with them. Moyes comes in and cant win a game and people say its because of the team he was left. He was left the Champions.

 

[Purdy]

Ferguson (or the club, whoever you want to blame) left an absolutely garbage (relatively) team that got by on other clubs rolling over in fear whilst he made incredibly short term decisions like rvp.

The following manager was set for certain failure with so many players about to drop off the cliff in their career and surrounded by mediocrity.

 

[placeholder]

Ferguson (or the club, whoever you want to blame) left an absolutely garbage (relatively) team that got by on other clubs rolling over in fear whilst he made incredibly short term decisions like rvp.

The following manager was set for certain failure with so many players about to drop off the cliff in their career and surrounded by mediocrity.

The team won the league by 11 points. They didn't go from being good enough players in May winning the title and suddenly a load of rubbish the following August. It wasn't Fergusons fault that he could get them to win with ease and Moyes couldn't. Plus if the squad was so bad perhaps it would have been prudent to spend a bit more that summer improving it rather than just buying Fellaini.

 

[placeholder]

He left a blank cheque to be spent by the next manager? Why did Moyes 'only' sign Fellaini and then Mata half way through his year?

Because Moyes couldn't make up his mind about players. Most notably Thiago. We know how much money was available by looking at the rate it has been spent by managers since. Moyes himself said he had no budget limitations.

He bough Fellaini and Mata and hadn't the first clue where to play them anyway.

 

[FrankJH]

The team won the league by 11 points. They didn't go from being good enough players in May winning the title and suddenly a load of rubbish the following August. It wasn't Fergusons fault that he could get them to win with ease and Moyes couldn't. Plus if the squad was so bad perhaps it would have been prudent to spend a bit more that summer improving it rather than just buying Fellaini.

The fact SAF left so many positions well over the age of 30 with little to no real backup was totally his fault.

the fact is as much as the managerial mistake of taking on Moyes, the "hunger" from the players was missing as well while they knew there was little to no competition for places.

Rio, Vidic and Evra had been creaking at the edges for a few seasons already before Fergie left, and the fact we are still stuck with Jones and Smalling (god knows how) despite their obvious inadequacies at this level

there were about 3 or 4 decent players in Moyes 1st XI - Rafael, Rooney (when he was still 1/2 decent), Chicharito and Carrick when his legs were kinda still there. RvP had already fallen off the cliff of rarely being fit, Kagawa although classy player never worked at Utd and the rest were at the level of squad players at best even though they were starting a lot of the matches.

In the last two seasons of SAF being at the club he bought DDG (also the 2nd most expensive apart from RvP the next summer), Phil Jones and Young before the 11/12 season and RvP on his last legs (literally, and it was obvious at the time), Zaha and Kagawa and some cheap as chips "gambles" in 12/13 (Powell, Bentner and Henriquez)

I think the reason the likes of Jones and Young are still around is mainly because we have had 3 managers in the intervening time and there have been more urgent areas of the team to revitalise …...not that they are actually that good.

 

[placeholder]

The fact SAF left so many positions well over the age of 30 with little to no real backup was totally his fault.

the fact is as much as the managerial mistake of taking on Moyes, the "hunger" from the players was missing as well while they knew there was little to no competition for places.

Rio, Vidic and Evra had been creaking at the edges for a few seasons already before Fergie left, and the fact we are still stuck with Jones and Smalling (god knows how) despite their obvious inadequacies at this level

there were about 3 or 4 decent players in Moyes 1st XI - Rafael, Rooney (when he was still 1/2 decent), Chicharito and Carrick when his legs were kinda still there. RvP had already fallen off the cliff of rarely being fit, Kagawa although classy player never worked at Utd and the rest were at the level of squad players at best even though they were starting a lot of the matches.

In the last two seasons of SAF being at the club he bought DDG (also the 2nd most expensive apart from RvP the next summer), Phil Jones and Young before the 11/12 season and RvP on his last legs (literally, and it was obvious at the time), Zaha and Kagawa and some cheap as chips "gambles" in 12/13 (Powell, Bentner and Henriquez)

I think the reason the likes of Jones and Young are still around is mainly because we have had 3 managers in the intervening time and there have been more urgent areas of the team to revitalise …...not that they are actually that good.

But it is virtually impossible to creak at the edges for THREE seasons when in those 3 seasons you win two titles and come second by a single goal in the other. That's actually a better record than anyone else can muster in modern times.

Don't get me wrong, if you went back to those seasons I was demanding a midfielder instead of RVP and made various complaints about things but we cannot say that Fergie got it wrong when he continued to win and frankly win with ease. Over a couple of seasons after he left, of course things would change and the provision for change was there financially for the new man.

A top manager would have got a tune out of that squad while he changed it to his own image. Fergie, as I said, left a team that was 11 points clear and there was a pile of cash to spend. He could do no more.

The appointment of Moyes was another matter entirely.

 

[GGizmo]

Did he ever have it?

The guy is so overrated.

He seems to have a chip on his shoulder all the time. I don't think he respects the club. So can't really expect any of the people under him to either.

 

[FrankJH]

But it is virtually impossible to creak at the edges for THREE seasons when in those 3 seasons you win two titles and come second by a single goal in the other. That's actually a better record than anyone else can muster in modern times.

Don't get me wrong, if you went back to those seasons I was demanding a midfielder instead of RVP and made various complaints about things but we cannot say that Fergie got it wrong when he continued to win and frankly win with ease. Over a couple of seasons after he left, of course things would change and the provision for change was there financially for the new man.

A top manager would have got a tune out of that squad while he changed it to his own image. Fergie, as I said, left a team that was 11 points clear and there was a pile of cash to spend. He could do no more.

The appointment of Moyes was another matter entirely.

The gap to others is completely irrelevant, the future of the club still has to be considered- not just think" oh I can rely on those three until Im gone" If we were so brilliant in the league (and the numbers flatter the team somewhat) Fergie should have been doing much better in Europe than he did in those last couple of years. From 06/07 - 10/11 Utd did fantastically well - even when being beaten twice by an incredible barca team, but after that he kinda gave up in Europe somewhat. This is another indicator that the squad really wasn't up to a proper campaign

who ever took over still required a large core of 1st XI players young enough still to be encouraged to do better, not players who should have already been replaced.

 

[placeholder]

The gap to others is completely irrelevant, the future of the club still has to be considered- not just think" oh I can rely on those three until Im gone" If we were so brilliant in the league (and the numbers flatter the team somewhat) Fergie should have been doing much better in Europe than he did in those last couple of years. From 06/07 - 10/11 Utd did fantastically well - even when being beaten twice by an incredible barca team, but after that he kinda gave up in Europe somewhat. This is another indicator that the squad really wasn't up to a proper campaign

who ever took over still required a large core of 1st XI players young enough still to be encouraged to do better, not players who should have already been replaced.

The gap to the others isn't irrelevant at all when people are saying the team was poor. Look, I can agree up to a point that we could have done better in Europe looking back but that has never really been a measure, its always been the league first and foremost. To bring Europe into it is looking for reasons why the team was a failure because the one true measure - the league, doesn't back up the theory. City have spent hundreds of millions and haven't really set Europe alight yet.

I also agree that fans may have done things differently to Fergie and would have changed players etc but the absolute fundamental point is the things Fergie did were justified because he got the results. Van Gaal changed an entire team and spent a bazillion pounds and did the square root of hee haw as a result. Again, we cannot blame Fergie for other managers failings when he himself won with the team he assembled.

I also think his retirement was not planned long term so we will never know what his plans were for change. We weren't in a situation where Fergie was purely thinking short term and just trying to eek the last drops out of the side, nor was he just looking to win today and forget tomorrow in a Blackburn title win manner or dare I say it a Mourinho way. We will never know but had Fergie stayed on I would have been confident of another title or two coming our way - purely speculation of course.

 

[aowc02]

Give Jose another season. minimum.