Has Jose Mourinho lost it?

[Robbo]

Robust. Difficult to beat. Solid set pieces offensively and defensively. Predictable but effective. Stealing games on the counter.

Things you typically associate with Jose Mourinho sides, and he had a... charisma, which like the above points, seems to have gone.

Earlier this season, even when things have been going well, he's seemed miserable, like he never really wanted to be at Manchester United. The one exception was when he won the Europa League final (failure to do so would have been a total embarrassment though).

I've always liked Mourinho and I knew exactly what we'd be getting into if he was our manager. I hoped he'd change and be here long term but even if he didn't, it would have been OK as his methods are effective at least for a couple of seasons.

I hope things get sorted out, and I haven't yet written him off, but to me it looks like we've had a few wobbly moments and at the earliest sign of a problem, he's totally imploded - presumably behind the scenes too judging by the players.

Just what has gone wrong? Will anything change?

 

[Raymond Lin]

It's a bit too soon to say, still 2nd in the league and qualified for the knock out stages.

Got into the Champions's League and won a few trophies.

 

[robfosters]

He’s there at a very unfortunate time. City are probably the best club team in the world atm and having his old rival Pep outdo him at every corner is probably taking its toll. After all, you’re still second and doing better than anyone else, bar City. He is too negative a manager for United though. A positive manager going to a negative side can work wonders, but the other way round is asking for problems. I can’t see him lasting past next season unless PSG grab Pep with some ridiculous offer.

 

[Shamikebab]

It's too early to say really. We're on a poor run of form at the moment but we're still second in the league and improved over last season in every area. I don't think many fans expected to win the league this year, just improve from last year. Few could have anticipated City turning into one of the best teams on the planet.

 

[robfosters]

Still think you bought the wrong striker too. There were three strikers going around the prem in the summer, Lukaku, Morata and Lacazette. I think you bought the one who suited Utd the least.

 

[Robbo]

It's too early to say really. We're on a poor run of form at the moment but we're still second in the league and improved over last season in every area. I don't think many fans expected to win the league this year, just improve from last year. Few could have anticipated City turning into one of the best teams on the planet.

Yes, it's not all bad looking at the league table, but we started really well. We were even top at a few points ahead of City, then cracks started to appear and we've looked woeful over the last few weeks.

Ignoring the results for a moment, the team just look like they aren't being coached at all - which is very alarming. We resort to Ashley Young, an old winger playing as a defender, whipping in crosses all afternoon. Great.

Mourinho already got his excuse in weeks ago, it's because we didn't sign Perisic. Would he be helping? Almost certainly, but it would have been better to get him and a sub £90m striker (if both weren't an option).

 

[doodah]

£300m isn't enough. Ha. Might as well spend another £200m, drain them of attacking style and then spend more money.

 

[Robbo]

Really...

Responding to a question that such a gap might be unacceptable for a club of United's stature, Mourinho said in his press conference: "One thing is a big club and another thing is a big football team. They are two different things.

"We are in the second year of trying to rebuild a football team that is not one of the best teams in the world. Manchester City buy full-backs for the price of strikers. When you speak about big football clubs, you are speaking about the history of the club."

When it was pointed out United have spent heavily - roughly £286m - since Mourinho took charge in 2016, the Portuguese replied: "OK, (but) it is not enough. The price for the big clubs is different than for the other clubs.

 

[ScottyJKB]

He’s there at a very unfortunate time. City are probably the best club team in the world atm and having his old rival Pep outdo him at every corner is probably taking its toll. After all, you’re still second and doing better than anyone else, bar City. He is too negative a manager for United though. A positive manager going to a negative side can work wonders, but the other way round is asking for problems. I can’t see him lasting past next season unless PSG grab Pep with some ridiculous offer.

+1

Pressure seems to be showing IMO.

"Jose Mourinho says 300m spend not enough" - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42488421

Zzz!

 

[FrankJH]

If you compare Utd's and City's spending since Pep and JM arrived I think there is a £60m or so difference (City spending that much more) , which is probably enough for one decent prospect at the very least......and that's not allowing for KDB, Aguerro and David Silva amongst others who were already at the club and at least two of those three have stepped up a level this season in particular (in DS's case maybe returned to that level after a questionable season or two).

Did Utd even have a single world class player in their outfield ranks before JM arrived? Certainly not by form

That just shows how far Utd's squad has fallen imo - not helped by questionable managerial decisions and even worse transfer ideas that are just one bad decision after another rather than actually making a cohesive decision and sticking to it.

Pep can go out and spend , spend , spend - JM has a board that's being reigned in by owners who are happy with being in the CL and don't care about the titles etc (after all the bottom line isn't affected that badly by being 2nd or 3rd every year - but the cost of getting a squad that can challenge effectively is £100's of millions more than difference in the bottom line)...and I doubt Pep will stop spending either so its a moving target.

IF Utd are able to keep 2nd (or worst comes to the worst and drops to 3rd) by the end of the season I think JM would have made a good improvement (even if his demeanor has worsened) - whether he needs some credit in getting Martial, Rashford, working better in the team in general (even if Rashford has lost a bit of form recently) I think that will be a decent improvement especially IF Utd get past Savilla in the knock out rounds of the CL - in all likelihood the draw will be horrendously difficult after that if Utd get thru.

When you consider that Blind, Darmian, Mata, Mkhi, Carrick, Fellaini, Smalling, Rojo could all be sold/retired in Jan without any significant loss in squad quality that just shows how bad the squad is. Obviously the "legs" would need to be replaced at least partially, but there is enough value there to get at least one decent cm or full back at the very least may be even two without spending anything on top.

JM doesn't help himself with some of the things he comes out with - or how he is coming across in the last month or two - but Utd are moving in the right direction under him, although it is a bit slower than fans wanted / hoped for.

 

[omnomnom]

Comparing their spend is a little harsh really when you think of the team Pep took over. United's squad was poor when Jose took it on whereas Pep inherited Aguero, Sterling, KDB, Silva, two of these are about to enter their prime and two are up there with the best in the world in their position. You could also throw in the likes of Fernandinho, Yaya, Kompany and Delph who arent bad squad players.

I actually think Jose has a point when he says City spend striker fees on full backs....they do.

 

[drunkenmaster]

utd fans couldn't shut up about how brilliant Herrara was, Martial was fantastic in his first season, he was only 'worse' last season because Mourinho wanted him to play closer to a second fullback in the 6 at the back line up he constantly wanted played when you didn't have the ball.

You spent £60mil on Di Maria who you got rid of after a whole season, 30mil on a full back who was very good, was very good up to his leg break then Mourinho hasn't given a chance to but has been amongst your better players now he's finally started playing him. Spent 25mil on Depay, got rid of him almost immediately too.

UTd have spent plenty, they've spent worse, they just don't play exciting football. Mourinho doesn't really build offences, he improves motivation and defensive solidity (at the cost of offence rather than brilliant training and tactics, 6 at the back isn't great defence, it's numbers, 4 at the back defending better is improving defence via training and tactics), if the club had a struggling offence I never saw him as the guy to come in and improve it.

Guardiola has improved the defence at City massively and all the defensive players despite playing a more offensive and more attacking style.

As for spending striker money on fullbacks. Most expensive buys for CIty are 52mil on Mendy, 47mil on Jones and 45mil on Walker. Most expensive buys for Utd, 90mil (plus rumoured 20mil fee on top not sure if that was true or not) for Pogba and 75mil on Lukaku. They also spent 31mil on LIndelof, 30mil on Bailly. £60mil on Di Maria, I forget what the eventual price on Martial was supposed to be pushing £50mil after the 'easy' clauses(not the awards but games played). City spent £37 on Jesus, £27mil on Sane, £20mil on Gundogan. So City spent 2/3rds what Utd did on Strikers for their fullbacks, but Utd spent double what City did on their wide attackers and 1/4 on the midfielders... it's all a completely pointless comparison. The players cost what they cost and they spent what they spent. Mourinho could have bought Jesus, Sane and Gundogan for the cost of Pogba or Mendy and Danilo for the price of Lukaku. Would Utd be a better team if they had... probably, both fullbacks, Jesus upfront, Sane out wide, Gundogan in the middle.

The biggest issue is I think Guardiola would have improved every player in that squad, built them into a cohesive offence, improved the defence without making it a pure numbers game and likely have bought better as well.

I have no idea why Utd or the fans seemed convinced that Mourinho would make this a long term appointment and make them great for a long time based on his inability to stay anywhere longer than 3 years before. Why would he have been unable to make long term good teams at Chelsea, Real, Chelsea, again with the money he spent those times and having had the same problem with each team?

If you've got an iffy defence, an unmotivated team and want a short term turn around, Mourinho's your man, if you want a team built for the long term and genuine improvement in every player, improved tactics, improved style then Mourinho is the last manager I'd call on. Utd had a fairly solid defence, an uninspired offence and needed anyone but Mourinho.

 

[Marky]

I can't explain Utd's recent hit in performance - I'm sure they'll bounce back though, and they're still 2nd so I don't think it's time to worry just yet!

 

[Steedie]

He's basically turning in to the man he always mocks, Wenger. A manager who is relying on the same old approach that served him well for years, but refuses to change and adapt.

We've skipped 2nd year Mourinho, and gone straight to third season. We're 2nd and not exactly doing terribly, but we'll not win a thing this year and I can't see that changing while he's in charge

 

[FrankJH]

snip.

1) Di Maria was well gone before JM even arrived, so not quite sure why he is even being brought up - and its debatable if he ever wanted to actually be in Manchester to start with, majority of the games he played it didn't look like it (admittedly not helped by lvG's tactics). Always thought ADM wanted to get out of Madrid so quickly he had to go to Utd as no one else could afford him (or wanted to) that summer. I don't even recall PSG offering anything the summer Utd signed him.

2)Herrera was very good last season, but he has been in and out of the side which hasn't helped (and for the most part playing a different role to the one he played majority of last season). He may have played brilliantly last season but I don't think anyone called him world class.

3)Depay is doing reasonably well in France, but again not exactly like he is anything close to world class - and certainly no proof that he would be lighting up the EPL either.

4) Utd's offence isn't bad at all, although we do need someone who can cross accurately to use one of Lukaku's (and Ibra's for that matter) best qualities.

5)Martial is improving massively ( in general like Rashford, though both's current form has dipped) but whether both are anywhere close to world class yet is another question entirely. Their form dips too often to be considered that imo

6)Did you purposefully forget the £55m on KDB ? Seeing as you keep on mentioning players that left Utd before JM joined yet totally forget the cost of Kevin....Silva...and Aguerro
No wonder your figures look so dubious

No we couldn't have got Jesus because he never wanted to come to Utd in the first place which is why we never even bid for him. As for gundogen, he was a major injury gamble when he came to England so certainly wouldn't have played anywhere near the games Pogba has already played for Utd so we would have needed another player as well anyway.

Its no surprise Utd have been leaking goals when Bailly has been out injured. He is without doubt our best centre half. The only game you can fault him on recently was vs Chelsea (I think it was anyway) when he was obviously playing with a significant injury.

 

[Marky]

The way I see it is - Man City are in a league of their own this season, and if they didn't exist, then Utd would be top

The games I've watched of Utd's recently have been really boring and unoriginal, so I do understand the pressure he is receiving - But I can't believe it when I hear fans ask for him to leave already

 

[chroniclard]

Football is crap, rivals for top four are creeping up playing much better football. Given the football Mourinho is promoting they will soon be in a battle for 5th with Arsenal before the end of the season.

 

[sigma]

I think the issues at the club are far deeper than the manager.

 

[Trusty]

utd fans couldn't shut up about how brilliant Herrara was, Martial was fantastic in his first season, he was only 'worse' last season because Mourinho wanted him to play closer to a second fullback in the 6 at the back line up he constantly wanted played when you didn't have the ball.

You spent £60mil on Di Maria who you got rid of after a whole season, 30mil on a full back who was very good, was very good up to his leg break then Mourinho hasn't given a chance to but has been amongst your better players now he's finally started playing him. Spent 25mil on Depay, got rid of him almost immediately too.

UTd have spent plenty, they've spent worse, they just don't play exciting football. Mourinho doesn't really build offences, he improves motivation and defensive solidity (at the cost of offence rather than brilliant training and tactics, 6 at the back isn't great defence, it's numbers, 4 at the back defending better is improving defence via training and tactics), if the club had a struggling offence I never saw him as the guy to come in and improve it.

Guardiola has improved the defence at City massively and all the defensive players despite playing a more offensive and more attacking style.

As for spending striker money on fullbacks. Most expensive buys for CIty are 52mil on Mendy, 47mil on Jones and 45mil on Walker. Most expensive buys for Utd, 90mil (plus rumoured 20mil fee on top not sure if that was true or not) for Pogba and 75mil on Lukaku. They also spent 31mil on LIndelof, 30mil on Bailly. £60mil on Di Maria, I forget what the eventual price on Martial was supposed to be pushing £50mil after the 'easy' clauses(not the awards but games played). City spent £37 on Jesus, £27mil on Sane, £20mil on Gundogan. So City spent 2/3rds what Utd did on Strikers for their fullbacks, but Utd spent double what City did on their wide attackers and 1/4 on the midfielders... it's all a completely pointless comparison. The players cost what they cost and they spent what they spent. Mourinho could have bought Jesus, Sane and Gundogan for the cost of Pogba or Mendy and Danilo for the price of Lukaku. Would Utd be a better team if they had... probably, both fullbacks, Jesus upfront, Sane out wide, Gundogan in the middle.

The biggest issue is I think Guardiola would have improved every player in that squad, built them into a cohesive offence, improved the defence without making it a pure numbers game and likely have bought better as well.

I have no idea why Utd or the fans seemed convinced that Mourinho would make this a long term appointment and make them great for a long time based on his inability to stay anywhere longer than 3 years before. Why would he have been unable to make long term good teams at Chelsea, Real, Chelsea, again with the money he spent those times and having had the same problem with each team?

If you've got an iffy defence, an unmotivated team and want a short term turn around, Mourinho's your man, if you want a team built for the long term and genuine improvement in every player, improved tactics, improved style then Mourinho is the last manager I'd call on. Utd had a fairly solid defence, an uninspired offence and needed anyone but Mourinho.

History tells us that Mourinho can put squads together over a number of years though, most recently - Chelsea, before that.. Real Madrid, and Chelsea again. You can't deny that the City squad wasn't better player for player, it definitely was. Guardiola is in the fortunate position to take advantage of that, I don't believe they will run away with every piece of silverware for the next couple of years. If UTD go out in the summer and spend 150m on Bale & someone like Hazard, does that not change things dramatically? Its definitely interesting what's happening in Manchester between these two clubs

 

[Shamikebab]

Why would we want Hazard? We've got Lingardinho who has now scored and created more than Hazard this season