Has the PS3 flopped?
- Thread starter jim5000
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Jihad said:
I think he meant that the main point of the HDD is all this online content from Marketplace we are told about. AFAIK this can only be saved on the official HDD. You plug a USB drive in you cannot run XBLA games, Demos, Videos from Marketplace. I am sure Gamesaves can't go on USB drives either.
As we are constantly reminded, all this downloadable content is the future, but you can only store it on expensive Microsoft official HDDs.
It seems like content from your PC can go removable drives but not content obtained through your xbox 360.
rp2000
Edit: reading "andy"'s post above, maybe that isn't what he meant?
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Demon said:You are so sucked in by Sony
The 360 only needs a 20Gb HDD because you don't have to install the entire game to it just to help it load games in a reasonable time...
Seriously whenever people mention the HDD size it's a bit of a joke isn't it.. the new 360 Elite is 120Gb, Sony are upping theirs to 80Gb, it's all a waste of time, you can plug any USB drive into either and make the storage space what you want.. and even then, anyone with a modicum of 'media' is going to be well in excess of that.. Anyone who really seriously needs a media streamer isn't going to touch the PS3 at all, it's for people that just don't know any better..
Just keep telling yourself the PS3 is really a top quality media machine with a huge 60Gb HDD..
No actually - even before the ps3 came out I thought MS where overcharging enourmously with their add-on prices , and its not just about games its about using it for any kind of storage
By all means charge £70 but give a decent amount of space for that money (after all MS have promoted it as a general av hub also) adding an external usb drive is an answer - but then you are paying twice un-necessarily imo not to mention you cant actually use the external drive for any means (its restricted in its use by MS)
Its actually pretty decent - but fair goes you dont think so , I have a number of BR discs and a lot of music on it and its pretty decent - maybe not perfect but for the jobs it does (plays games, plays br at 1080p and hd sound, mp3's etc and folding) it does all of them pretty reasonably
Of course you could pay £200 -£300 to do some of those things ( ps3 is still the cheapest br player in mass circulation) but hey ho you pay your money and take your choice
Please dont try and be a smartass, I am more than happy with my purchase as I researched its abilities before hand and can wait for the better games to be released.
rp2000 - you were right
. Maybe I missed something but still understood there were limitations to usb drives on the x360 (unlike the ps3 who actually offically tell you what type of drive to use and make it easy to upgrade if you want a larger one)
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rp2000 said:
sry i even confused myself
i thought that demon was saying you can plug in your own hard drives to the 360.
when i had my 360 all i could do with my usb drive was read from it. eg play a certain format video file or play an mp3/wma
was wondering if this has changed as the ps3 seems to do quite allot more
anyway you cant knock either of the consoles price wise because with both your getting great value for money , if you pick which console you want sensibly
Wow.. a hornets nest..
Lets give it a kicking..
I'm just so annoyed at the amount of time I've now invested in getting the PS3 into a position to play just a few of the more common media types (HD Stuff)...
All I keep hearing is people bitching about HDD space, etc, it occasionally just annoys the hell out of me.. I concede that 20Gb is < 60Gb, but 60Gb is next to useless as well, but some people seem to blow this out of all proportion claiming that 60Gb (or even replace it with something bigger) makes the PS3 the best media device ever..
This leads me onto these claims that the PS3 is so much more then a games console, it's a 'media centre'.. it's actually very limited as a media device, but obviously most people have no idea what is out there and what is required of a 'media device' these days..
I've got a lot of HD material (mostly legit), 1Tb of DVD Iso's (All legit from my own 4000+ DVD collection (Just the best ones, i.e. no chickflicks) and plenty of lossless audio files, MP3's and a pretty good collection of TV Epsisodes (Mostly DIVX/XVID)..
Now, just about all I can play is the MP3's, everything else HDD based needs converting (and that will lose some serious quality, not an option if you are into HD stuff).. it can't play H264 in any popular containers, it can't play divx/xvid (these can be converted, but it's just a pain in the ass if you have loads of media)
So it boils down to playing DVD's, BR Discs, Audio CD's and MP3's everything else requires transcoding and not even on the fly, PITA..
There is no slick front end media browser, it can't see network shares, it can only basically play content from it's HDD or one plugged in.. as soon as you get any reasonably size collection, this is just not viable meaning it's only suited to the 'casual' media user.... it's useless as a proper media centre..
However, I got the PS3, because of the reported success using Linux for Media.. now this was more interesting, from lots of posts on many boards, people had been telling everyone they had massive success, and it plays just about everything..
Does it hell, using the latest MPC and every trick in the book, it still can't handle any real H264 container formats, it obviously can't play BR discs directly, you have to boot back to the main XMB for that.. and there are no media front ends for Linux worth a damn..
I had tried the 360 as a media extender and that is 10 times better, but dammit, still not perfect.. you get a superb front end, MCE can be very easily coaxed into playing everything except the H264 contained stuff, but all the DivX/XVid/DVD/ MPEG2TS streams (with 5.1 audio), lossless audio in many formats etc.. but again since it excludes a major source of HD material, then I've got fed up of that..
So it's back to the HTPC for now.. it took ages to setup, but using Media Portal I have something that can play every format under the sun, and all for £300 including a legit XP installation..
Any serious media collector is not going to stash his collection on his PS3, it's never going to have any where near the storage space required, no matter what drive you throw in, and how can you then 'share' this with other devices..?
The reason most people use a central server is so that they only have one storage place, and all media devices connect to it..
Just FYI, there are many many media hardware media streamers, all around the £150 that have wired/wireless can play off HDD's internally or via USB, and handle 95% of formats, audio and video, except the H264 higher bitrate profiles, which is the only reason as a more 'serious' user I haven't gone down that route.. but there are a few interesting models out this year that will play everything including H264 VC-1 for around the £200-£250 mark..
So as media goes, I'd rank..
1.HTPC - can play everything including BR/HD-DVD as well as every downloadable media format, but takes ages to boot, and can suffer with the usual PC issues
2. Hardware media streamer - can handle just about everything, and for £150 a much better alternative to the PS3/360
3. The 360 used as a MC Extender - can even watch live TV streamed from your server.. can play a lot more formats then the PS3, and has a very slick and easy to use front end.
4. The PS3 - plays DVD's/BR/AUdio CD's and MP3's, anything else and you will need to transcode or install linux and use MPC with lots of tweaking and it still won't play quite a few formats..
I don't expect many people to agree with any of this, but then again I suspect most people are just very casual users who maybe want to put 1 or 2 episodes of something they've transcoded on their PS3, or maybe a few Gb's of music duplicated on their PS3.. However, when people keep bringing up the PS3 as an uber media device, and the large HDD is all part of that.. please realise that it just isn't... not yet...
I can't wait until it is a decent media device, but I can see me having to either stick with the HTPC or get one of the newer dedicated devices for around £200 when they surface.. I'll then ISO up all my BR/HD-DVD titles and use that as my main media source for the projector..
sorry to rant, I'll calm down and promise to be more tolerant of other peoples opinions, but we all need to let of steam everynow and again..
I still like the PS3 for the games.. I can't wait for more to come out, but with the 360 as well, this year is going to be good!..
Lets give it a kicking..
I'm just so annoyed at the amount of time I've now invested in getting the PS3 into a position to play just a few of the more common media types (HD Stuff)...
All I keep hearing is people bitching about HDD space, etc, it occasionally just annoys the hell out of me.. I concede that 20Gb is < 60Gb, but 60Gb is next to useless as well, but some people seem to blow this out of all proportion claiming that 60Gb (or even replace it with something bigger) makes the PS3 the best media device ever..
This leads me onto these claims that the PS3 is so much more then a games console, it's a 'media centre'.. it's actually very limited as a media device, but obviously most people have no idea what is out there and what is required of a 'media device' these days..
I've got a lot of HD material (mostly legit), 1Tb of DVD Iso's (All legit from my own 4000+ DVD collection (Just the best ones, i.e. no chickflicks
) and plenty of lossless audio files, MP3's and a pretty good collection of TV Epsisodes (Mostly DIVX/XVID)..Now, just about all I can play is the MP3's, everything else HDD based needs converting (and that will lose some serious quality, not an option if you are into HD stuff).. it can't play H264 in any popular containers, it can't play divx/xvid (these can be converted, but it's just a pain in the ass if you have loads of media)
So it boils down to playing DVD's, BR Discs, Audio CD's and MP3's everything else requires transcoding and not even on the fly, PITA..
There is no slick front end media browser, it can't see network shares, it can only basically play content from it's HDD or one plugged in.. as soon as you get any reasonably size collection, this is just not viable meaning it's only suited to the 'casual' media user.... it's useless as a proper media centre..
However, I got the PS3, because of the reported success using Linux for Media.. now this was more interesting, from lots of posts on many boards, people had been telling everyone they had massive success, and it plays just about everything..
Does it hell, using the latest MPC and every trick in the book, it still can't handle any real H264 container formats, it obviously can't play BR discs directly, you have to boot back to the main XMB for that.. and there are no media front ends for Linux worth a damn..
I had tried the 360 as a media extender and that is 10 times better, but dammit, still not perfect.. you get a superb front end, MCE can be very easily coaxed into playing everything except the H264 contained stuff, but all the DivX/XVid/DVD/ MPEG2TS streams (with 5.1 audio), lossless audio in many formats etc.. but again since it excludes a major source of HD material, then I've got fed up of that..
So it's back to the HTPC for now.. it took ages to setup, but using Media Portal I have something that can play every format under the sun, and all for £300 including a legit XP installation..
Any serious media collector is not going to stash his collection on his PS3, it's never going to have any where near the storage space required, no matter what drive you throw in, and how can you then 'share' this with other devices..?
The reason most people use a central server is so that they only have one storage place, and all media devices connect to it..
Just FYI, there are many many media hardware media streamers, all around the £150 that have wired/wireless can play off HDD's internally or via USB, and handle 95% of formats, audio and video, except the H264 higher bitrate profiles, which is the only reason as a more 'serious' user I haven't gone down that route.. but there are a few interesting models out this year that will play everything including H264 VC-1 for around the £200-£250 mark..
So as media goes, I'd rank..
1.HTPC - can play everything including BR/HD-DVD as well as every downloadable media format, but takes ages to boot, and can suffer with the usual PC issues
2. Hardware media streamer - can handle just about everything, and for £150 a much better alternative to the PS3/360
3. The 360 used as a MC Extender - can even watch live TV streamed from your server.. can play a lot more formats then the PS3, and has a very slick and easy to use front end.
4. The PS3 - plays DVD's/BR/AUdio CD's and MP3's, anything else and you will need to transcode or install linux and use MPC with lots of tweaking and it still won't play quite a few formats..
I don't expect many people to agree with any of this, but then again I suspect most people are just very casual users who maybe want to put 1 or 2 episodes of something they've transcoded on their PS3, or maybe a few Gb's of music duplicated on their PS3.. However, when people keep bringing up the PS3 as an uber media device, and the large HDD is all part of that.. please realise that it just isn't... not yet...
I can't wait until it is a decent media device, but I can see me having to either stick with the HTPC or get one of the newer dedicated devices for around £200 when they surface.. I'll then ISO up all my BR/HD-DVD titles and use that as my main media source for the projector..
sorry to rant, I'll calm down and promise to be more tolerant of other peoples opinions, but we all need to let of steam everynow and again..
I still like the PS3 for the games.. I can't wait for more to come out, but with the 360 as well, this year is going to be good!..
Demon said:
As a media centre neither the 360 or the PS3 are perfect.
The 360 is OK with MCE but in essence you need to re-encode files so you lose quality just like you do on the PS3. The only benefit with the 360 is you can transcode on the fly if you have a powerful PC. I am sure anyone serious about a media centre does not need the noise from a 360 and a PC going at full pelt encoding files on the fly!!
The PS3 has such a slick interface for swapping between music, videos and pictures, but is very restrictive in how you can get files onto the machine. I have no doubt in my mind if the PS3 could connect to a network share or upnp server it would instantly become a better media centre than the 360.
I genuinely think MCE is too much hassle and overcomplicated for average Joe.
So after owning both these game consoles I still use a macmini as a media centre. Every single function on the console can be accessed quickly with a 6 button remote control and Front Row + VLC + Codecs means it can play anything I throw at it. (divx, x264, mov, etc). And it connects to my 1TB NAS just like a network shortcut.
That is all
rp2000
Demon said:Wow.. a hornets nest..
Lets give it a kicking..
I'm just so annoyed at the amount of time I've now invested in getting the PS3 into a position to play just a few of the more common media types (HD Stuff)...
All I keep hearing is people bitching about HDD space, etc, it occasionally just annoys the hell out of me.. I concede that 20Gb is < 60Gb, but 60Gb is next to useless as well, but some people seem to blow this out of all proportion claiming that 60Gb (or even replace it with something bigger) makes the PS3 the best media device ever..
This leads me onto these claims that the PS3 is so much more then a games console, it's a 'media centre'.. it's actually very limited as a media device, but obviously most people have no idea what is out there and what is required of a 'media device' these days..
I've got a lot of HD material (mostly legit), 1Tb of DVD Iso's (All legit from my own 4000+ DVD collection (Just the best ones, i.e. no chickflicks
Now, just about all I can play is the MP3's, everything else HDD based needs converting (and that will lose some serious quality, not an option if you are into HD stuff).. it can't play H264 in any popular containers, it can't play divx/xvid (these can be converted, but it's just a pain in the ass if you have loads of media)
So it boils down to playing DVD's, BR Discs, Audio CD's and MP3's everything else requires transcoding and not even on the fly, PITA..
There is no slick front end media browser, it can't see network shares, it can only basically play content from it's HDD or one plugged in.. as soon as you get any reasonably size collection, this is just not viable meaning it's only suited to the 'casual' media user.... it's useless as a proper media centre..
However, I got the PS3, because of the reported success using Linux for Media.. now this was more interesting, from lots of posts on many boards, people had been telling everyone they had massive success, and it plays just about everything..
Does it hell, using the latest MPC and every trick in the book, it still can't handle any real H264 container formats, it obviously can't play BR discs directly, you have to boot back to the main XMB for that.. and there are no media front ends for Linux worth a damn..
I had tried the 360 as a media extender and that is 10 times better, but dammit, still not perfect.. you get a superb front end, MCE can be very easily coaxed into playing everything except the H264 contained stuff, but all the DivX/XVid/DVD/ MPEG2TS streams (with 5.1 audio), lossless audio in many formats etc.. but again since it excludes a major source of HD material, then I've got fed up of that..
So it's back to the HTPC for now.. it took ages to setup, but using Media Portal I have something that can play every format under the sun, and all for £300 including a legit XP installation..
Any serious media collector is not going to stash his collection on his PS3, it's never going to have any where near the storage space required, no matter what drive you throw in, and how can you then 'share' this with other devices..?
The reason most people use a central server is so that they only have one storage place, and all media devices connect to it..
Just FYI, there are many many media hardware media streamers, all around the £150 that have wired/wireless can play off HDD's internally or via USB, and handle 95% of formats, audio and video, except the H264 higher bitrate profiles, which is the only reason as a more 'serious' user I haven't gone down that route.. but there are a few interesting models out this year that will play everything including H264 VC-1 for around the £200-£250 mark..
So as media goes, I'd rank..
1.HTPC - can play everything including BR/HD-DVD as well as every downloadable media format, but takes ages to boot, and can suffer with the usual PC issues
2. Hardware media streamer - can handle just about everything, and for £150 a much better alternative to the PS3/360
3. The 360 used as a MC Extender - can even watch live TV streamed from your server.. can play a lot more formats then the PS3, and has a very slick and easy to use front end.
4. The PS3 - plays DVD's/BR/AUdio CD's and MP3's, anything else and you will need to transcode or install linux and use MPC with lots of tweaking and it still won't play quite a few formats..
I don't expect many people to agree with any of this, but then again I suspect most people are just very casual users who maybe want to put 1 or 2 episodes of something they've transcoded on their PS3, or maybe a few Gb's of music duplicated on their PS3.. However, when people keep bringing up the PS3 as an uber media device, and the large HDD is all part of that.. please realise that it just isn't... not yet...
I can't wait until it is a decent media device, but I can see me having to either stick with the HTPC or get one of the newer dedicated devices for around £200 when they surface.. I'll then ISO up all my BR/HD-DVD titles and use that as my main media source for the projector..
sorry to rant, I'll calm down and promise to be more tolerant of other peoples opinions, but we all need to let of steam everynow and again..
I still like the PS3 for the games.. I can't wait for more to come out, but with the 360 as well, this year is going to be good!..
Actually, I agree with just about everything you've said there.
I too have various types of media on a central server, so I can access it in various rooms. I agree with what you say about the PS3 media capabilities. As I posted in another forum (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17721832) , I attempted to help the situation a little, by adding some media to my webserver, to access on the PS3 via its webrowser.
It works for MPG, and MP3 files (though you have to download from the server, rather than stream, though it doesn't take too long - depending on your LAN speed) but the kick in the teeth, is that Sony haven't allowed downloading of .mp4 files from the web browser.... so even after going through the hassle of reencoding something, you still have to burn it on a disk, or use a memory stick.
Using the web browser is, of course, not the best, but it does at least mean you can access your servers worth of media, and if you want to watch a film, download over LAN to your PS3 HDD, watch it, and delete it. I hope they allow .mp4 files to be downloaded in a future update... or better, proper media streaming from a PC. I live in hope
V1N.
EDIT: Of course, if your DVDs are all ISOs, the web server won't be any use, but if you saved them as MPG files (therefore no need to reencode/loose quality) you could download them with this method. I tried this with MPG files from my PVR.
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I don't think the technical capabilities of the PS3 have anything to do with whether it flops or not.
Although I don't post much in this forum, I do play a lot of consoles. I got the Wii and 360 on launch dates and am a sucker for shiney new consoles on launch day. I have a pretty good job and am normally the kind of person that spend the money without really thinking about it if a new console came out. It just doesn't interest me though. I couple of my friends have them so I've had quick a play round, but motorstorm is the only game I like (but not love) and Whats the point in paying £450 for just that game at the moment.
If you really want to look at if it is going to flop or not, you need to look at the sales figures last week.
They just aren't selling. In addition Ken Kutaragi has just "Stepped Down" ie been sacked.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2066728,00.html
Although I don't post much in this forum, I do play a lot of consoles. I got the Wii and 360 on launch dates and am a sucker for shiney new consoles on launch day. I have a pretty good job and am normally the kind of person that spend the money without really thinking about it if a new console came out. It just doesn't interest me though. I couple of my friends have them so I've had quick a play round, but motorstorm is the only game I like (but not love) and Whats the point in paying £450 for just that game at the moment.
If you really want to look at if it is going to flop or not, you need to look at the sales figures last week.
They just aren't selling. In addition Ken Kutaragi has just "Stepped Down" ie been sacked.
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2066728,00.html
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those sales just prove how well sony are doing in the market as a whole
psp (failure apparently) and ps2s (old and outdated apparently)are still selling like mad
when they eventually phase out the ps2 and get some decent games for the ps3 i doubt it can go wrong
people say the ps3 is too late to the next gen
looking at sales IMO its actually too early...
to me they show most people couldn't care less about the "nextgen"
people of japan seem to be doing fine without HD gaming
psp (failure apparently) and ps2s (old and outdated apparently)are still selling like mad
when they eventually phase out the ps2 and get some decent games for the ps3 i doubt it can go wrong
people say the ps3 is too late to the next gen
looking at sales IMO its actually too early...
to me they show most people couldn't care less about the "nextgen"
people of japan seem to be doing fine without HD gaming
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Bigpig said:
In Japan, certainly the 360 is - That's been well know for ages. The problem for Sony is that Japan has traditionally been their stronghold and they are getting trounced by Nintendo, even though there are Wii shortages.
I think it speaks volumes that there was an unofficial price drop so soon after launch. Retailers were forced into doing that because they had £100,000s of unsold stock that no one is buying.
rp2000 said:
Thanks for the nice response.. I was being a bit harsh, one of those outburst moments!!
I think as Media centre's go, things like the Mac Mini, or a normal HTPC setup are still the only all in one from a single 'interface' solution..
I just can never see the PS3 becoming anywhere near as good, it's going to take a huge effort with linux and MPC to cover the BR/HD-DVD/H264 VC-1 aspect.. and I doubt the 360 will ever be allowed to stream the more common HD format's (Other then WMV-HD and MPEG2-TS) either... which puts them level pegging on format support. I'd still put the 360 ahead simply due to the media centre extender, if you connect to a Vista machine, the interface is uber slick... but it still falls short.. all IMHO of course..
There is no way the PS3 is/will be a flop.. It'll still get to the number 1 spot, but at least this time we have a healthy 3 horse race keeping each other 'honest'...
Demon said:
Hold on - of course only an independant at this state of the market is only going to be able to cope with both aspects of BR and HD-DVD, until one or the other "wins" neither the x360 or the ps3 will play both formats.
Well dohhhhh of course an x360 will connect to Vista, thats hardly surprising
Saying that the PS3 has enough local storage for most needs even for a family - its unlikely you can say the same for the X360
If only they'd not insisted on putting Blue Ray inside them. I wish consoles would be consoles. Fudge Blue Ray; fudge "media centre" functionality. Consoles play games, and that's all I want one for.
And as a 360 owner - there is no way in hell I would use mine to play music or DVDs on. The bugger is just too loud to enjoy anything like that.
And as a 360 owner - there is no way in hell I would use mine to play music or DVDs on. The bugger is just too loud to enjoy anything like that.