Has Tim Cook lost the plot?

[Caged]

I completely forgot this is the author of the "the AirPort is pointless because it requires the owner to know a few things about their internet connection" thread. Says a lot I suppose.

Maybe one day Apple will stop forcing him to purchase their products at knife point and he can go back to a peaceful existence.

 

[V F]

It's the AirPort Extreme thread all over again...

This subforum has really gone down the bog, real shame. Sorry to be off-topic and not contribute to the topic (quite frankly it isn't worth it), but this type of thread really sums this up.

Serious question though, if it wasn't worth it which you obviously thought it was, then why respond? Since you said it wasn't worth it.

God bless the mindset of social media. Everyone has to have a point of view and share it. Even though it's not worth it. Lets share anyway. OOOORAH!!!

 

[Caged]

I think the same could be said about anyone who responds in the way you did. Basically we are all massive idiots wasting time on a sunny day.

 

[Faustus]

This is an absolutely pointless thing to argue about. Question the decision all you want, don't claim that somehow it's damaging the brand and that your opinion is fact.

It doesn't matter that it doesn't fit your definition of desktop, what matters is whether the people who buy it will be happy with it, and for a lot of people who don't have demanding requirements from a computer the answer will be yes. If they want to edit video all day long or deal with RAW photos then they will be advised to buy a different model. The possibility that someone could buy something that isn't suitable for their requirements because they just click "Add to cart" on the cheapest model isn't Apple's fault, and could happen with any other product they make.



What is there to source? A machine that capably runs Office and Safari will be perfect for people who's job involves using Office and Safari. I'm not sure where that statement needs backing up.

It is you that doesn't quite get it. I was questioning the wisdom of realeasing an iMac 'lite' for want of a better term.

You have now mixed it up and claim it's fine for the vast majority of Mac users. I asked how you could know this i.e. what is your source to make this assertion.

My initial question and your responses are not the same things at all.

 

[Faustus]

I completely forgot this is the author of the "the AirPort is pointless because it requires the owner to know a few things about their internet connection" thread. Says a lot I suppose.

Maybe one day Apple will stop forcing him to purchase their products at knife point and he can go back to a peaceful existence.

There you go again with the barbed comments. It does you no credit.

P.S I'm sat in my garden responding to these posts so not wasting the sunny day here.

 

[slinxy]

There are enough idiots out there that buy an apple product simply because of the apple logo, regardless if it's fit for the purpose or if there was a better alternative. It's like them people I see driving a round in them four door diesel Porsche, I ask myself why?!? But it's their cash and they can do what they want with it.

To say the new iMac is not a premium product is silly, it's 899 plus VAT, normally when I buy a new mac, I wait until the new range is out and pick up the older range for roughly that price unless something radical has changed. The fact that it's made in the same way as the more expensive imacs using a unibody shell shows that it is a premium product.

Will this hurt their rep? It wasn't that long ago they Apple removed all traces of older models from their sales sites, but now they seem more than happy selling older models of iPads and iPhones to users, it's money for old rope; and with the new os coming out soon, who knows what wizardry they have to make a low spec mac run at a decent speed.

 

[MagicBoy]

Heh! It's really that bad now?

More of them did than didn't, put it that way. I guess I'm just getting old.

I'm not making ... lets say .... rude assumptions, like say my parents might, it's just an observation. As long as the customer service is good they can dress and accessorise themselves as they like.

Quite a lot of the Regents Street staff fall into the tattoo/piercing/weird ear lobe thing camp.

A number of the employees about 10 years ago in the US stores I went into were typical hipster types. I suppose the tattoo/piercing/weird ear lobe thing is the next logical step, and it's spread over here now.

Will this hurt their rep? It wasn't that long ago they Apple removed all traces of older models from their sales sites, but now they seem more than happy selling older models of iPads and iPhones to users, it's money for old rope; and with the new os coming out soon, who knows what wizardry they have to make a low spec mac run at a decent speed.

To be fair most Apple machines from 2008/09 run the current OS just fine, and will run Yosemite when it comes out, although an SSD helps responsiveness. A lot.

 

[Caged]

It is you that doesn't quite get it. I was questioning the wisdom of realeasing an iMac 'lite' for want of a better term.

You have now mixed it up and claim it's fine for the vast majority of Mac users. I asked how you could know this i.e. what is your source to make this assertion.

My initial question and your responses are not the same things at all.

So what exactly is your point? You've questioned the wisdom of releasing an iMac 'lite' and thrown in a brand reputation angle for some reason which you now seem keen to forget. A lot of people here are disagreeing with you that is is an iMac 'lite', that's all. Nobody is correct because that is a matter of opinion, hence this thread. I could ask the question of why the 16GB iPads and iPhones exist, but then I see people quite happily using 3GB of local storage after having their devices for a year and the question answers itself.

And I never said vast majority, I said vast quantity. The two are totally different. The only evidence I have is 1st hand experience of the types of applications loaded on the systems which are in an inventory that I have access to that covers a couple of thousand iMacs of varying ages across PR, media and education customers.

Yes, this base spec iMac isn't suitable for photographers or people who work with video, but neither was the base spec two weeks ago.

I also think you are underestimating just how bad the PC AIOs are in terms of price/performance. Despite the processor in this iMac it still manages to be a good value product, which says a lot more about the competition than it does about Apple.

 

[Faustus]

I'm sure you would find similar applications on computers of any description or operating system. It's something of a leap to claim that's all the majority (quantity is the wrong term) of people will use them for though.

 

[Caged]

It's a good job I never made that leap then.

 

[lamboman]

Serious question though, if it wasn't worth it which you obviously thought it was, then why respond? Since you said it wasn't worth it.

God bless the mindset of social media. Everyone has to have a point of view and share it. Even though it's not worth it. Lets share anyway. OOOORAH!!!

Knew I'd get a response like this, which is absolutely right. I made the point mainly because:

This is the author of the "the AirPort is pointless because it requires the owner to know a few things about their internet connection" thread.

Discussion like this is horribly unproductive, akin to a child shouting "LA LA LA" with their fingers in their ears. What I'm saying doesn't add to this topic, but frankly it can't get any less productive.

I think the same could be said about anyone who responds in the way you did. Basically we are all massive idiots wasting time on a sunny day.

Absolutely!

While I'm here I might as well state and opinion seeing as this is the Internet

Is the new iMac expensive? Yes. Too much so? Well, that depends on the perspective. Due to the use of ULV processors it is entirely possible that the build cost is higher than you'd think, and Apple want to maintain the same profit margins. Through the education store, I quickly specced up a Mac mini to the same level, and it comes out at around £80-90 cheaper (looking at the Education Store and OcUK for RAM and the display) - that form factor is probably worth £90 to somebody. On the other hand, compared to it's more powerful counterparts, it's less powerful and isn't that much cheaper, which is exactly how we as consumers perceive it.

However, those complaining about upgradability in a bottom end machine are really missing the point. £150 is £150, and if a school or user with "basic" requirements wants a very compact system and doesn't require the power of a higher end machine (e.g. all they do is browse the web and create documents in Office), there's no point in pouring more money into a machine that will not provide additional benefits. The target market isn't the type that will upgrade this machine (and for the scenarios described above, 8GB of memory is plenty).

It isn't about value, it's more about saving wherever possible in order to attain a "premium" machine with exceptional build quality and a great design. These people have "fallen" for the hype and want a cheaper (not cheap) way to get Apple's AIO.

Would I buy one? No, of course I'd either go for the next model up or go for a Mac mini and chuck in my own upgrades (SSD and cheaper RAM elsewhere), however this machine isn't aimed at the likes of us.

It's the same argument as buying a C-Class, A4 or 3-series over a Mondeo. Look what happened there...

Faustus, honest question: why do these things seem to bother you so much? Or is it bait...

 

[Ryan-3]

It's the AirPort Extreme thread all over again...

This subforum has really gone down the bog, real shame. Sorry to be off-topic and not contribute to the topic (quite frankly it isn't worth it), but this type of thread really sums this up.

IIRC it was about the Time Capsule, and you do describe these threads rather well.

 

[Faustus]

It's a good job I never made that leap then.

No just Apple users - apparently.

 

[Faustus]

IIRC it was about the Time Capsule, and you do describe these threads rather well.

Perhaps you should re-look at the thread in it's entirety to see what I had to say. It may also be of interest to you, or not, that a number of users have contacted me on the back of that thread to ask how to set up the TC/AE to act as sole router for their network.

The thanks I have received for those I assisted justifies the thread as far as I am concerned.

What is your contribution to these threads, apart from barbed comments that is?

 

[Faustus]

Faustus, honest question: why do these things seem to bother you so much? Or is it bait...

As an Apple shareholder I have a bona-fide interest.

 

[Caged]

Perhaps you should re-look at the thread in it's entirety to see what I had to say. It may also be of interest to you, or not, that a number of users have contacted me on the back of that thread to ask how to set up the TC/AE to act as sole router for their network.

The thanks I have received for those I assisted justifies the thread as far as I am concerned.

What is your contribution to these threads, apart from barbed comments that is?

You like that word don't you?

Please explain how a thread where you ranted about how terrible the Time Capsule was as a product (before you tried one for yourself) is justified because you then helped people configure theirs off of the forum? Surely it would be more beneficial to everyone if that help had been public? I don't honestly believe that anyone asked you how to set up a Time Capsule after reading your thread seeing as there were around five other people reporting positive experiences doing exactly what you were claiming was a difficult setup to achieve (and a few people had posted exactly how to set one up in the thread), but whatever.

If you are concerned with what Apple are doing as a shareholder then there are avenues to voice those concerns. Dismissing opinions that differ to yours as being wrong in a discussion thread isn't one of those avenues.

 

[lamboman]

Perhaps you should re-look at the thread in it's entirety to see what I had to say. It may also be of interest to you, or not, that a number of users have contacted me on the back of that thread to ask how to set up the TC/AE to act as sole router for their network.

As we established in that thread however, those "problems" aren't problems with the products. That's the way that networking is, and that applies to every other "cable" router on the market. It applies to the Asus N66U I have, and it applies to the m0n0wall VM installation I have running on my Mac mini. The configuration steps for all of them is identical.

Keep in mind that the setup process for fibre optic services works in exactly the way you were complaining about. You get your Openreach modem (which is actually a software-locked router) and you plug that into a separate router (e.g. AEBS, TC, Asus N/AC, etc). That's the way it is.

The thanks I have received for those I assisted justifies the thread as far as I am concerned.

Justifies the thread maybe as a result of the lack of clear explanations from ISPs and manufacturers in order to assist average Joes in setting up their own hardware, because frankly they don't have a clue and the nomenclature is confusing. But the AEBS/TC as individual products without modems? No more flawed than any other similar product on the market (which is most of them).

As Caged said too...

However, all that's a different subject entirely, and one that was covered in that thread.

As an Apple shareholder I have a bona-fide interest.

As Caged said, there are other more suitable places to voice concerns. Either way, a new bottom-end iMac isn't where your focus should be. Regardless of whether it can be perceived as good value compared with higher tier models, if education sectors and those with basic requirements can fulfil those requirements for £150+ or whatever less with no real-world drawbacks, that can only be a good thing for shareholders.

 

[Faustus]

You like that word don't you?

Please explain how a thread where you ranted about how terrible the Time Capsule was as a product (before you tried one for yourself) is justified because you then helped people configure theirs off of the forum? Surely it would be more beneficial to everyone if that help had been public? I don't honestly believe that anyone asked you how to set up a Time Capsule after reading your thread seeing as there were around five other people reporting positive experiences doing exactly what you were claiming was a difficult setup to achieve (and a few people had posted exactly how to set one up in the thread), but whatever.

If you are concerned with what Apple are doing as a shareholder then there are avenues to voice those concerns. Dismissing opinions that differ to yours as being wrong in a discussion thread isn't one of those avenues.

I don't really care what you believe.

What a lot of users were doing was simply setting up the TC/AE as wireless extenders but using their existing routers which completely under utilises the product. The best option is to put your existing router into Bridge Mode (if your router allows it) and then hand all the traffic over to the TC/AE. If not then you need to purchase a modem to act as a gateway to the Internet. However, this is now old ground and been covered extensively before. I think it was only mentioned by a poster who had little to add to this debate other than causing mischief. Not for the first time either.

My argument was that for the average user such an exercise was not that simple.

As for the iMac - there are growing voices on a number of forums now voicing similar views to my own. These things take time for people to digest.

As a shareholder I am aware of my rights.

As for dismissing the views of others - isn't that what you have been guilty of all the way through this thread?

 

[Sasahara]

The choice of ULT CPU gives Apple the marketing BS tag line of saving the planet.

They could have easily put a more powerful (+50%) cheaper CPU and cut $100 of the price.

ULT CPUs make sense in a laptop where you want the low power usage, not in a mains powered appliance. :S

Still they'll sell cause it's apple and if you want OSX your stuck with the limited range.

IMO anyone considering this would be better off getting a Mac mini, a VESA mac mini mount and spend the spare £350+ on a decent larger monitor.

 

[Caged]

As for dismissing the views of others - isn't that what you have been guilty of all the way through this thread?

Not at all, I am dismissive of you presenting your opinions as facts and backing out of defending your statements.

People grumbling on forums is very different to someone purchasing the thing and having a poor user experience which can be solely laid at the feet of the CPU installed inside it. I still don't see how a cheaper option that is perfectly capable of doing exactly what huge numbers (note, I once again didn't say majority) of Mac users do on their machines is a bad thing.