HDMI-equipped models still running Zephyr 90-nm chips

Logsi · 15 Aug 2007 at 23:58

Tony Williams said:
Also remember that Digital > Analogue isn't always the case. Looks at watches!

Also Sound.

Vinyl-Tape > CD

Josh

Princey · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:01

wannabedamned said:
As said in the thread already, VGA cannot possibly provide a better picture than HDMI.

HDMI works digitally, So the signal sent and recieved is ALWAYS identical and how it should be percieved, If your TV is incapable of HDMI or certain resolutions thats a different story completely.

VGA even if its the most expensive cable in the universe will have attenutation, even if its 0.001.

Yes the difference is negligable, But it's still true that HDMI is the most perfect video interface when usable.

Maybe so but a TV will still look better in its native res.

Larnica · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:02

wannabedamned said:
Yes the difference is negligable, But it's still true that HDMI is the most perfect video interface when usable.

Excuse my ignorance but would this be the same case on a tv that can only display 720p/1080i? I'm still debating if HDMI or VGA will look better on me tv.

Metalface Mark · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:07

wannabedamned said:
As said in the thread already, VGA cannot possibly provide a better picture than HDMI.

HDMI works digitally, So the signal sent and recieved is ALWAYS identical and how it should be percieved, If your TV is incapable of HDMI or certain resolutions thats a different story completely.

VGA even if its the most expensive cable in the universe will have attenutation, even if its 0.001.

Yes the difference is negligable, But it's still true that HDMI is the most perfect video interface when usable.

Why do people find VGA better on their 360 than they do with HDMI then?

Princey · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:08

VGA will look better becuase it'll be closer to your displays native res. HDMI will only look better if both the images we're displayed at 720p or 1080p.

Metalface Mark · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:18

Princey said:
VGA will look better becuase it'll be closer to your displays native res. HDMI will only look better if both the images we're displayed at 720p or 180p.

But that isnt the case, americans who have the elite are saying that VGA looks better period, if both are running at 1080p, VGA is topping the HDMI.

queamin · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:19

Princey said:
VGA will look better becuase it'll be closer to your displays native res. HDMI will only look better if both the images we're displayed at 720p or 180p.

That will depend on your hdtv? as mine can do native res with 3 connections but that with a pc.

edit:- mine is 1366 x768 and vga and conponent about the same as hdmi maybe not quite as good but not by much.

Princey · 16 Aug 2007 at 00:22

If your HDTV has a native resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 then HDMI should look a little better.

BoomAM · 16 Aug 2007 at 09:46

wyrdo said:
Not this again..

The difference between HDMI and VGA is barely noticable, HDMI is not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

I agree.

Unless your TV/Monitor has awful VGA inputs, and/or you have a large length of VGA cable, and/or you run it through/under/over/next to a lot of electrical cables/psu's, then the difference is almost none.

On a perfect setup, the difference will be so small that only when told will a difference be noticed.

KNiVES · 16 Aug 2007 at 10:56

Princey said:
If your HDTV has a native resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 then HDMI should look a little better.

Kinda hard to find HDTVs with those native resolutions - most are a little off the designated HD resolutions, such as 1280x786 for 720p sets.

Gerard · 16 Aug 2007 at 11:27

wyrdo said:
Because it will run cooler which will also mean better reliability, hopefully.

It probably already runs cooler with the upgraded heatsinks with heatpipes installed.

Joebob · 16 Aug 2007 at 11:54

BoomAM said:
I agree.

Unless your TV/Monitor has awful VGA inputs, and/or you have a large length of VGA cable, and/or you run it through/under/over/next to a lot of electrical cables/psu's, then the difference is almost none.

On a perfect setup, the difference will be so small that only when told will a difference be noticed.

Would it not free up system resources a tad though, as it no longer had to convert digital to analogue and then back to digital?

SilverSpider · 16 Aug 2007 at 12:22

Is the Elite not able to output 1360x768 over its HDMI output and therefore able to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on the TV's that allow this over their HDMI inputs ?

As only then can anyone say which is best from VGA or HDMI ... in saying that though it will be dependent on the individual TV in most cases anyway.

Phil99 · 16 Aug 2007 at 12:30

Joebob said:
Would it not free up system resources a tad though, as it no longer had to convert digital to analogue and then back to digital?

It shouldn't use any shared resources, the conversion will be done by a seperate chip, so the chip is either used or it isn't, and unless I'm mistaken the chip used wouldn't be used by anything else, so converting Digital -> Analogue or vice-versa wouldn't slow anything else down.

BoomAM · 16 Aug 2007 at 13:45

Joebob said:
Would it not free up system resources a tad though, as it no longer had to convert digital to analogue and then back to digital?

As Phil99 said.

.

Joebob · 16 Aug 2007 at 14:21

Phil99 said:
It shouldn't use any shared resources, the conversion will be done by a seperate chip, so the chip is either used or it isn't, and unless I'm mistaken the chip used wouldn't be used by anything else, so converting Digital -> Analogue or vice-versa wouldn't slow anything else down.

But that chip uses extra electricity and produces heat which will mean the fan will have to work that little bit harder to cool the system and thus again using extra electricity. I'm sure that by using a HDMI cable you will be saving something like 1p a year on your electric bill so it may well pay for itself in the end.

Kreeeee · 16 Aug 2007 at 16:24

Joebob said:
Would it not free up system resources a tad though, as it no longer had to convert digital to analogue and then back to digital?

You do amuse me sometimes

SilverSpider said:
Is the Elite not able to output 1360x768 over its HDMI output and therefore able to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping on the TV's that allow this over their HDMI inputs ?

As only then can anyone say which is best from VGA or HDMI ... in saying that though it will be dependent on the individual TV in most cases anyway.

Why can't you compare 1080P via VGA and HDMI? A lot of TVs now do 1080P via both inputs.

"andy" · 16 Aug 2007 at 17:41

Kainz said:
It means everything to the 360. Infact it's more important then some pesky HDMI addition. Heat and a poor cooling design has plagued the 360 from the start. A cooler running cpu/gpu will be brilliant for MS because it makes their design flaw less apparent.

ah right

i thought the heatsink thing was already sorted out

Kainz · 16 Aug 2007 at 18:12

andy said:
ah right
i thought the heatsink thing was already sorted out

The new heatsink addition will help, but its a tack-on job by MS. They should have looked at the overall problem and come up with a better solution. Either way, the .65nm chips and the new heatsink addition will help hugely in terms of reliability anyway. The only big question is, when does the UK get the new revision models? I'm banking on them slowly arriving towards Xmas.

Zico · 18 Aug 2007 at 18:14

Personally I will be purchasing a new Elite as and when they have 65nm parts (not due to hit the market just yet).

Right now I would like to have a newer 360 with HDMI for the following reasons (but won't be buying until they are 65nm parts):

1) Our 46" X series Sony TV will only do 1080p via HDMI compared to 1080I via both VGA and Component.

2) The newer Zephyr boards are fitted with the newer heat-sink and should be less likely to breakdown.

The newer HDMI premium units are rumoured to be quietly entering the market around the same time as the Elite's release in the UK. This is the same situation as in the US (and elsewhere) where retailers are receiving stock of the newer Premium units, but the only way to check for a HDMI connection is to look at the box. Retailers won't make a fuss of stocking the newer Premium units if they still need to clear stock of current models.