HDMI over IP

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Apologies for pulling up an old post.

I would like to find out if the following setup would work with SkyQ please:



Current setup:
  • SkyHD
  • Magic Eye (Coax cable)
  • TV in living room & TV in bedroom (35 meter distance between both)

Desired setup:
  • SkyQ
  • HDMI over IP
  • TV in living room, TV in bedroom, TV in guest room (35 meters and 20 meters distance from the living room)
  • These will be direct Cat-6 connections (i.e. not using powerline connectors)

Questions:
  1. Would this work with SkyQ?
  2. Do you think the provided IR Receivers and Blasters would work with SkyQ?
  3. Simmz, did you ever get to trial the http://www.scion-tech.co.uk/sc01_1108_hdmi_over_cat5.html? If so, how was it and would it be a better solution?

The alternative is he stays with SkyHD and his current setup.


Thank you advance!

JC

First thoughts: Messy, buggy, wasting potential, and a sledge hammer to crack a walnut.

Sky Q already has a feature built-in to support several additional rooms. It's called Sky Multiscreen. The main Q box differers from the Sky HD box in that it supports something like 14 tuners rather than two despite the box itself still only using two feeds from the LNB. The purpose for all these tuners is so that main Q box can supply signals to small player-only boxes called Minis.

Minis have no inputs for satellite signal cable. For most people, all they'll see is a power lead and the HDMI cable going to the TV. The boxes have Wi-Fi, Ethernet and also Powerline Ethernet support. This is how each Mini receives live TV and recorded programs from the main Q box.

To all intents and purposes, a Mini acts just the way an extra Sky HD box would with a full multiroom subscription. Whatever package is on the main Q box is replicated on the Mini. It's possible to watch different channels at the same time that the main box is being used. The Mini can pause and rewind live TV. It can be used to set its own recordings without clashing with the main box or other Minis, and to play those recordings regardless of what the main box or another Mini is doing.

Sky's multiscreen package costs £13 per month on top of the main box subscription price, and there's a one-off fee of £75 per Mini. Having Multiscreen also unlocks Sky Q's Ultra HD signal for the main box.


Changing to Sky Q and then adding the sort of HDMI-over-Cat-cable distribution system you're thinking about is a bit pointless. You might as well stick with the HD box because you're not gaining that much by swapping to Sky Q. Sure, you get to record more channels at the same time, but the box itself can only show one channel or play one recording at any one time, so all the extra rooms only see the window on what is being viewed in the main lounge. For that, you might as well stick with Sky HD.

Where your friend/relative/customer is happy with the idea of sharing one box to three rooms, but wants better picture quality and to retain compatibility with Sky Eyes for control, then there's a smarter way and, better still, it makes use of the existing coax cable.

There are boxes called modulators which will turn a Sky HD signal via HDMI in to the equivalent of another Freeview HD channel. That means a vastly improved signal over the existing coax that your friend is currently getting with Sky's analogue RF2 signal. Have a look at the Edision HDMI Modulators. There are a couple of versions. The one I would recommend has an orange frame around the LCD display window, and it has two connections for RF signal pass through. This last part is important because it means that the box integrates with the home's existing Freeview service and allows the Sky Eye signal to get back to the HD box. That means the TVs retain access to Freeview as an alternative to watching the Sky signal.

The TVs that are going to be used with the Edision or similar boxes need to be able to decode MPEG4. Most recent TVs with a Freeview HD tuner seen to fit the bill, but it's always worth checking just to be on the safe side.
 
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First thoughts: Messy, buggy, wasting potential, and a sledge hammer to crack a walnut.

Sky Q already has a feature built-in to support several additional rooms. It's called Sky Multiscreen. The main Q box differers from the Sky HD box in that it supports something like 14 tuners rather than two despite the box itself still only using two feeds from the LNB. The purpose for all these tuners is so that main Q box can supply signals to small player-only boxes called Minis.

Minis have no inputs for satellite signal cable. For most people, all they'll see is a power lead and the HDMI cable going to the TV. The boxes have Wi-Fi, Ethernet and also Powerline Ethernet support. This is how each Mini receives live TV and recorded programs from the main Q box.

To all intents and purposes, a Mini acts just the way an extra Sky HD box would with a full multiroom subscription. Whatever package is on the main Q box is replicated on the Mini. It's possible to watch different channels at the same time that the main box is being used. The Mini can pause and rewind live TV. It can be used to set its own recordings without clashing with the main box or other Minis, and to play those recordings regardless of what the main box or another Mini is doing.

Sky's multiscreen package costs £13 per month on top of the main box subscription price, and there's a one-off fee of £75 per Mini. Having Multiscreen also unlocks Sky Q's Ultra HD signal for the main box.


Changing to Sky Q and then adding the sort of HDMI-over-Cat-cable distribution system you're thinking about is a bit pointless. You might as well stick with the HD box because you're not gaining that much by swapping to Sky Q. Sure, you get to record more channels at the same time, but the box itself can only show one channel or play one recording at any one time, so all the extra rooms only see the window on what is being viewed in the main lounge. For that, you might as well stick with Sky HD.

Where your friend/relative/customer is happy with the idea of sharing one box to three rooms, but wants better picture quality and to retain compatibility with Sky Eyes for control, then there's a smarter way and, better still, it makes use of the existing coax cable.

There are boxes called modulators which will turn a Sky HD signal via HDMI in to the equivalent of another Freeview HD channel. That means a vastly improved signal over the existing coax that your friend is currently getting with Sky's analogue RF2 signal. Have a look at the Edision HDMI Modulators. There are a couple of versions. The one I would recommend has an orange frame around the LCD display window, and it has two connections for RF signal pass through. This last part is important because it means that the box integrates with the home's existing Freeview service and allows the Sky Eye signal to get back to the HD box. That means the TVs retain access to Freeview as an alternative to watching the Sky signal.

The TVs that are going to be used with the Edision or similar boxes need to be able to decode MPEG4. Most recent TVs with a Freeview HD tuner seen to fit the bill, but it's always worth checking just to be on the safe side.

Whoa, that's a very detailed and informative post. Thank you!

It's for my elderly father who lives on his own and has mobility issues. As a result he has SkyHD in the main living room and a magic eye device connected to a second television in his bedroom some 35 meters away. Minus a poorer image quality on the bedroom television, this has worked great for many years.

I am (heading to 'was') keen to look at getting SkyQ setup for him but without the additional cost of having to pay £13 a month for a Sky Mini multi-room box.

I'll have a look at the Edision HDMI Modulators with the orange frame around the LCD display window. When you mentioned this above were you referring to it working with SkyQ or SkyHD?

I'll also have a look at the 3 x TV specs to see if they can decode MPEG4

Thank you again for taking time to post and help like this, it's very much appreciated!
 
Soldato
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Why do you want Sky Q instead of SkyHD?

SkyHD plus a decent set of extenders will get you a perfect 1080 picture at the remote TVs and allow you to use the magic eye for the remote if you need to.
 
Man of Honour
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Whoa, that's a very detailed and informative post. Thank you!

It's for my elderly father who lives on his own and has mobility issues. As a result he has SkyHD in the main living room and a magic eye device connected to a second television in his bedroom some 35 meters away. Minus a poorer image quality on the bedroom television, this has worked great for many years.

I am (heading to 'was') keen to look at getting SkyQ setup for him but without the additional cost of having to pay £13 a month for a Sky Mini multi-room box.

I'll have a look at the Edision HDMI Modulators with the orange frame around the LCD display window. When you mentioned this above were you referring to it working with SkyQ or SkyHD?

I'll also have a look at the 3 x TV specs to see if they can decode MPEG4

Thank you again for taking time to post and help like this, it's very much appreciated!

You only need MPEG4 decoding on the two remote TVs (bedroom, guestroom) to decode MPEG4. The main lounge TV still connects via HDMI to the HD box near it.

The modulator will work fine with Sky Q as long as it is playing out at HD resolution or lower. That means 1080p or 1080i or at SD resolution for the non-HD channels. AFAIK, 4K UHD is only available from Q when a sibscriber takes the multiscreen option.

Sky Q doesn't support Sky Eyes though. If you change from a HD box to a Q box then you'll need to find some other solution for remote control. That could be either something compatible with the eyes or a complete new IR relay system.
 
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Why do you want Sky Q instead of SkyHD?

SkyHD plus a decent set of extenders will get you a perfect 1080 picture at the remote TVs and allow you to use the magic eye for the remote if you need to.

That's the question I am now asking myself. Ultimately, I entered into the idea for swapping his current box to SkyQ as its newer technology. He is a 'diamond' customer with Sky and has had his current HD box since release, so at some point it will give up the ghost and I suspect he will end up with a replacement in the form of a SkyQ box by default. I also thought it would be nice to improve the picture on the TV in the bedroom and also link it to the TV in the guest room (via some clever way of HDMI over Ethernet, or as lucid kindly pointed out, with modulators)

... that was before I learnt about all the challenges it would entail!

Sky Q doesn't support Sky Eyes though. If you change from a HD box to a Q box then you'll need to find some other solution for remote control. That could be either something compatible with the eyes or a complete new IR relay system.

Well, fiddle sticks! That ends that idea then... I must admit, I feel the biggest challenge to all this is answering the question, "How can he change the channel from the TV in the bedroom/guest room if he has SkyQ in the living room?" As he struggles to use mobile phones, let alone apps.


Thank you both for your kind help and suggestions. I'm not all that versed up on all this, so having your help and suggestions has been extremely useful, thank you!


Solution (regarding SkyQ): Sticking with SkyHD, but maybe look at a way to: a) Improve the signal to the Bedroom; b) Split the signal so it can link to the TV in the guest room.
 
Soldato
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Your original plan with the AGPtEK sender looked fine if you remove the Sky Q element.

Keep the SkyHD box.

Check that you can get a decent picture with the length of cable you need before you go to the trouble of drilling walls and routing it.

If the remotes don't work as you'd like you can either return the extender as not fit for purpose or put up with it and use the existing IR extender you have available via the magic eye.

If/when the Sky HD box dies you can buy a refurbished one for not much money.
 
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Your original plan with the AGPtEK sender looked fine if you remove the Sky Q element.

Keep the SkyHD box.

Check that you can get a decent picture with the length of cable you need before you go to the trouble of drilling walls and routing it.

If the remotes don't work as you'd like you can either return the extender as not fit for purpose or put up with it and use the existing IR extender you have available via the magic eye.

If/when the Sky HD box dies you can buy a refurbished one for not much money.

That sounds the best solution. Thank you.
 
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Man of Honour
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That's the question I am now asking myself. Ultimately, I entered into the idea for swapping his current box to SkyQ as its newer technology. He is a 'diamond' customer with Sky and has had his current HD box since release, so at some point it will give up the ghost and I suspect he will end up with a replacement in the form of a SkyQ box by default. I also thought it would be nice to improve the picture on the TV in the bedroom and also link it to the TV in the guest room (via some clever way of HDMI over Ethernet, or as lucid kindly pointed out, with modulators)

... that was before I learnt about all the challenges it would entail!



Well, fiddle sticks! That ends that idea then... I must admit, I feel the biggest challenge to all this is answering the question, "How can he change the channel from the TV in the bedroom/guest room if he has SkyQ in the living room?" As he struggles to use mobile phones, let alone apps.


Thank you both for your kind help and suggestions. I'm not all that versed up on all this, so having your help and suggestions has been extremely useful, thank you!


Solution (regarding SkyQ): Sticking with SkyHD, but maybe look at a way to: a) Improve the signal to the Bedroom; b) Split the signal so it can link to the TV in the guest room.

a) Using either the modulator or the AGPtEK* gives you the best signal quality from Sky HD (@ 1080i) or from non-4K Sky Q (@ 1080i/1080p). You won't get any better HD signal even with a direct HDMI if it was possible over that distance.

* this presumes that the AGPtEK doesn't compress the signal to reduce the bandwidth required so it'll travel down a single Cat6 cable.

b) The AGPtEK system has two Cat6 outputs; one each for the bedroom and guest room. No need to split further than that. You just need to drill the walls and run the cable.

The Modulator is even easier.

It goes in place of the RF In / RF2 Out. That's it. The same aerial distribution system that your dad is currently using to send Sky to the other TVs gets used for this new HD signal. The obvious advantages of using the house's existing aerial cable system are (1) it's already HD capable because it currently carries Freeview HD channels - you can prove this to yourself by switching the bedroom or guest room TV to Freeview and selecting any of the Freeview HD channels. (2) The aerial cable is already laid and working; no need for drilling and crawling around routing some extra wire, and of course, no extra cabling costs. (3) Any additional TVs hooked up to the aerial system also get the Sky HD feed. No requirements for additional hardware other than perhaps a Sky Eye.
 
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I thought the modulator was a nice solution and maybe cheaper than AGPtek with two end points.

Caveat maybe that aeriel system has a multi-port amp in loft .. so signal is not redistributed ?

( I currently distribute the composite signal taken from the scart output via coax plus stereo sound in a 3core cable ... which is fine for a 26" bedroom tv)
 
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I thought the modulator was a nice solution and maybe cheaper than AGPtek with two end points.

Caveat maybe that aeriel system has a multi-port amp in loft .. so signal is not redistributed ?

( I currently distribute the composite signal taken from the scart output via coax plus stereo sound in a 3core cable ... which is fine for a 26" bedroom tv)

The cost of the AGPtEK is a bit cheaper at £85, but then you have to add in the cost of the Ethernet cabling at roughly £50. The Edision is about £115, and it needs a HDMI splitter (1:2) so that'll add another £20 to the total. Over all then there's not a lot in it.

Since @jamost said that Sky is already being distributed to the master bedroom, then I've taken a bit of a leap of faith that maybe there is an aerial distribution system in place. I might be barking up the wrong three though and it could just as easily be a single run of coax from the RF2 out to the other TV. If that's the case, then either solution is going to require some extensive cable work.
 
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Well first things first, thank you again for all your help with this!

I'll avoid quoting the various posts above to keep this easier to read.

I feel very encouraged that the AGPtEK will do the job for his Sky+HD box. We already have a single run of coax from the RF2 out to his television in the bedroom (which already runs around the outside of the house), so running 2 more Ethernet cables around the house isn't something I mind doing.

However, I'm probably going to sound incredibly daft or ignorant saying/asking this:

The house, converted in the 1990's already has a number of older analogue aerial sockets in the bedrooms and kitchen which haven't been used in years. Example image: http://www.stevelarkins.freeuk.com/images/tv_wall_socket.jpg

These appear to link up to a Fringe 7 Way Distribution Amplifier in the attic. Photo of this: https://imgur.com/ON2n5ev (an old amazon link with info about it, I found this evening: https://www.amazon.co.uk/FRINGE-7-WAY-Distribution-Amplifier/dp/B00HQEYF0Y)

If it wasn't for this Fringe 7 Way Distribution Amplifier in the roof (which apparently is "Not suitable for SKY remote Pass") could I have connected the Edision HDMI Modulator (this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Edision-HDMI-Modulator-Full-Distribution-Black/dp/B00KBXKJ2A) between the Sky+HD box and the nearby coaxial face-plate - thereby allowing distribution of Sky to any other room which also has a coaxial face-plate?
 
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Yes, swapping out the old Fringe amp for something that will do power pass should work fine.

You would need a small change to the wiring though. To do it correctly, you would take the aerial feed from the roof/loft mounted aerial out of the Fringe, add a length of new coax, and send it to the Sky box location. It would connect to the RF In of the Edision. The output of the Edision would then connect to the aerial wall socket in the lounge. This now becomes the return feed back from the lounge to the loft.

In the loft, you then disconnect the coax plug & cable that was sending signal to the lounge, and then plug that end in to the Fringe "Aerial IN" socket or whatever they call it.

At this point, the single run of coax from the Sky box RF2 becomes redundant. You would switch across to making all TV signal connections via the wall plates.
 
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Blimey!

From my beginning post I feel as though I climbed into a beginners pool knowing I could swim, to finding myself in an Olympic swimming pool with professionals who are encouraging me to keep my head above water... to now finding myself in the North Sea :).

I'm going to do what all sensible people do in moments of panic and confusion... make a cup of tea and read this through carefully, several times, to better understand what is required to make this happen.


Cup of tea now in hand...

Yes, swapping out the old Fringe amp for something that will do power pass should work fine.

That sounds like the first thing I would need to do (something like the Labgear LDU608G 8 [LINK], or, a cheaper alternative this PROview [LINK]?).

However, putting that aside for a moment, and using the Fringe 7 Way Distribution Amplifier as the current device (for now), I would need to:

a) Add a new length of coax cable. One end would be plugged into the 'UHF 470-860 MHz' socket on the Fringe device (currently the aerial in the roof is plugged into this socket). The other end would run down the house into the RF In on the Edision device (which would be next to the Sky+HD box).
b) Using a much smaller length of coax I would then connect that to the 'output' on the Edision and the other end would go into the coaxial face-plate?

This would then allow Sky through to any room which also has a coaxial face-plate?
 
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Man of Honour
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Not quite correct. The way you describe it you have two input sockets connected together. That wouldn't work. Neither is providing a signal. You need either a source (the aerial) or the output from a device (Edision RF Out) connect to an Input for the signal flow to work.

You need a direct feed from the roof aerial in to the lounge where the Sky box lives. That's the cable extension. It connects to the Edision RF In.
 
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Be aware that the Edison doesn’t handle the remote control side of things.

On the version I have recommended, it does.

It passes through the Sky Eye signal. From the product description:

"Can be used with the Sky Magic Eye when used in conjunction with a Sky box Can be used with a Triax Tri Link or Proception modulator."
 
Soldato
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I meant that you need something in addition to the Edison unit to handle the IR side of things.

The HDMI sender from the opening post includes that functionality.
 
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That sounds like the first thing I would need to do (something like the Labgear LDU608G 8 [LINK], or, a cheaper alternative this PROview [LINK]?).

For what you need, the Labgear is overly complicated. I can't check the Toolstation link because their website appears down for I think. maintenance.

Something like this one at £24 would do fine. There might be a version with the push-fit coax aerial connections rather than the screw-on F-type if you look around.
 
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I meant that you need something in addition to the Edison unit to handle the IR side of things.

The HDMI sender from the opening post includes that functionality.

For a Sky HD box they already have all that's required. The only additional item would be another Sky Eye for the extra bedroom. That's hardly going to break the bank.
 
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