Heat Pumps: anyone have one/thought about it?

The problem with heatpumpmonitor data is that it is really depends on the set up and user maintaining the equipment, it is open source and many people like me will just plug in the device and let it run and collect data. The temperature sensor may go offline or set up wrongly and therefore data is not real world figures.
One the other hand there is link to heat geek data collection which show the other spectrum where each of the install is purposely built to show off the highest efficiency possible, either way the data is free and good for part of research but can't be used as informed decisions
 
I see two obstacles for me right now in my home, its plumbed in microbore and cavity walls are uninsulated. One would be very invasive to fix and the other comes with many potential drawbacks and problems. Gas boiler is over 20 years old so potentially its an issue that needs dealing with in the near future.
 
robj20 said:
Yes a couple of years with of data is what's needed.
Am I right in thinking SCOP is the figures to look at, is that weighted for winter?
I think I could arrange the garage so a thin cylinder would fit.

Good I wish having a heatpump and solar was easy and affordable right now I'd love the lot, margins are just so tight.
Why are the government not making it an absolute no brainer.
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Yeah but like ever with these things be careful, https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/faq/what-is-seasonal-efficiency--scop-and-seer-.html

Is your garage attached to your house. So it could pipe through a wall?
How thin are you talking? FWIW if you want to look at some examples there are plenty on screwfix.

Solar though I would say look into it now.
Some of the heat of pricing seems to have fallen away.

If you go to the solar panels and storage thread there are plenty there would can help you.
Unless pricing drops a lot, I still think most solar installs in the UK (assuming half decent number of panels) will be a 6-10 year payback.

Some people say to get solar to help with heating bills.
But TBH when you consider the winter months a typical UK install may have the odd good day, but unless your an incredibly low elec user your not going to have any spare above what you would be using in your house anyway.
 
robj20 said:
Good I wish having a heatpump and solar was easy and affordable right now I'd love the lot, margins are just so tight.
Why are the government not making it an absolute no brainer.
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Exactly. They are going about this the wrong way. When they offer incentives, they have no control over what the manufacturers and installers charge. Also, many people just don't need to change their system at the moment, so they aren't going to. The majority of people simply can't justify the outlay. They aren't concerned with green, they are concerned with cost. If the government wants people to be concerned with green, then they need to get those prices down. But like with everything else, the government wants to spend less, not more. Well, got news for them, that isn't going to work.
 
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@robj20 from what I understand you tend to get lower SCOP from hot water than heating because hot water needs to get hotter than heating so despite temperatures being warmer in summer it can pull your overall SCOP down.
 
SpellowHouse said:
Exactly. They are going about this the wrong way. When they offer incentives, they have no control over what the manufacturers and installers charge. Also, many people just don't need to change their system at the moment, so they aren't going to. The majority of people simply can't justify the outlay. They aren't concerned with green, they are concerned with cost. If the government wants people to be concerned with green, then they need to get those prices down. But like with everything else, the government wants to spend less, not more. Well, got news for them, that isn't going to work.
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I think a bit further than just throwing money into money pit when incentive and grant like these are happening. The funding goes to installer and into homes in the UK, this helps UK boiler installer and in turns pays salary to workers. Workers earn and pay taxes and demand drives jobs and employments, I rather grant for home improvement than any other governments spending which does not put investment directly or indirectly back into the UK.
 
Are boilers that use hydrogen actually feasible for residential? I can't wait to see the daily mail articles on how they are going to take out your whole housing estate if something goes wrong.
 
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SpellowHouse said:
Also, many people just don't need to change their system at the moment, so they aren't going to
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I don't think they are expected to either, the policy seems to be about people switching to heat pumps at the end of their existing boilers lifespan. The policy isn't to get everyone ditching perfectly viable gas boilers tomorrow.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yeah but like ever with these things be careful, https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/faq/what-is-seasonal-efficiency--scop-and-seer-.html

Is your garage attached to your house. So it could pipe through a wall?
How thin are you talking? FWIW if you want to look at some examples there are plenty on screwfix.

Solar though I would say look into it now.
Some of the heat of pricing seems to have fallen away.

If you go to the solar panels and storage thread there are plenty there would can help you.
Unless pricing drops a lot, I still think most solar installs in the UK (assuming half decent number of panels) will be a 6-10 year payback.

Some people say to get solar to help with heating bills.
But TBH when you consider the winter months a typical UK install may have the odd good day, but unless your an incredibly low elec user your not going to have any spare above what you would be using in your house anyway.
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Current boiler is in the garage basically on the side of the house wall pipes go down and under the first floor.
Under 500mm cylinder would be fine, height doesn't matter.

I've looked into solar we also use very likely electric, id be dead before we pay it back at current rates.
 
SpellowHouse said:
Exactly. They are going about this the wrong way. When they offer incentives, they have no control over what the manufacturers and installers charge. Also, many people just don't need to change their system at the moment, so they aren't going to. The majority of people simply can't justify the outlay. They aren't concerned with green, they are concerned with cost. If the government wants people to be concerned with green, then they need to get those prices down. But like with everything else, the government wants to spend less, not more. Well, got news for them, that isn't going to work.
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A few of us have received quotes after grant (but before the grant was increased) that are in the £3-4 region.
Thats still more than a replacement boiler, but its not that much more than a replacement boiler.

Thats fine if you have a suitable house. If however your house isn't, then the gas/oil replacement is going to be more cost effective.

The prices are coming down and the you have to rip half your house to bits is now situationally dependant.

I think inevitably over time the approach will be carrot and stick, which one gets most weight behind it who knows.
Right now electricity has green taxes applied to it, but gas doesnt. Which is really dumb when you consider the amount of green electricity is ever increasing. But also that electricity is also pegged to gas prices.
The renewable generators had to have a windfall tax applied to them as they would have been absolutely raking it in.
Those need fixing as well so we start to see a fairer comparison of gas vs elec pricing.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Are boilers that use hydrogen actually feasible for residential? I can't wait to see the daily mail articles on how they are going to take out your whole housing estate if something goes wrong.
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Jury is out.
Its unlikely to be pure hydrogen, but a hydrogen / gas mix.

Plus the main factor is that the process of "creating" hydrogen is massively energy inefficient.
People say thats ok we can use surplus green elec. The contra argument is well make that super super cheap, or free and allow everyone to for example heat water when its free without the massive conversion losses.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Are boilers that use hydrogen actually feasible for residential? I can't wait to see the daily mail articles on how they are going to take out your whole housing estate if something goes wrong.
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No, they may be able to mix in 10-15% but that’s it without ripping out the entire gas network and replacing it. They also can’t change over any section of the network until they have verified every single appliance attached is compatible to it in every single building and it’s internal pipework. Green hydrogen is also expensive, like several times more than electricity to produce.

Do you remember on the news a few months ago there was a big gas leak and they had to turn off an entire neighbourhood and they couldn’t turn it on again until they had got into every property to make sure the gas was off? It took days and the people who they couldn’t get hold had their doors forced as they couldn’t wait and longer to check.

People say heat pumps are expensive…
 
robj20 said:
Current boiler is in the garage basically on the side of the house wall pipes go down and under the first floor.
Under 500mm cylinder would be fine, height doesn't matter.

I've looked into solar we also use very likely electric, id be dead before we pay it back at current rates.
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I just picked a random 170ltr one on screwfix. Its tank width is 540mm. The 150ltr is also 54cm so I guess they just increase the height at those sorts of capacity
So I would hazard a guess you may well find someone has a tank thats 500 or less. Generally of course the closer to a ball the better as lowest external surface area compared to volume.
Certainly over history water tanks have generally always been the same kind of shape, but not always the same dimensions.

Edit just to add if you google slim water tanks whilst not heat pump specific you can get them. I know people have them in lofts so they exist.
This for example comes up, 210ltr, 478mm https://www.mrcentralheating.co.uk/...Qt_ig_nDkPmjnIstBnfsbQbCLDZqdcQIaAnZ4EALw_wcB
Its not a heatpump tank but there is very little difference between them all, that may even be compatible for example.
Many now have a lot of the pipework inside, mine has loads outside as its older.
 
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Ayahuasca said:
Are boilers that use hydrogen actually feasible for residential? I can't wait to see the daily mail articles on how they are going to take out your whole housing estate if something goes wrong.
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I don't know the details but I believe there are severe problems with Hydrogen. There is even a government report saying they don't think it's feasible.
 
SpellowHouse said:
I don't know the details but I believe there are severe problems with Hydrogen. There is even a government report saying they don't think it's feasible.
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The main issues are leakage (hence repiping necessary) and that older devices are either unable to be made compatible, untested etc

They government tried to run a forced trial. Eventually they gave up as the residents of the area basically just rejected any attempts to force them to move.

Plus "Hydrogen is inherently less safe than natural gas, from a fire and explosion standpoint. It has a much broader explosive range, it is much more prone to leaking, a much lower ignition energy level, and can produce higher over-pressures on explosion."
 
We'll be sticking with gas in our house. The HW/CH system is about as good as it gets and costs are acceptable (well they're horrific obviously compared to years ago, but I mean compared to investing thousands in solar or a new setup). Replacing our aging, poor sealing windows would make the most difference to our house.
 
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Anyone else, who requested a recent quote from Octopus, contacted them regarding this additional 2.5k grant (7.5k total)? Octopus have gone quiet on me regarding my reply to them sent on Wednesday.
 
darkgen said:
Anyone else, who requested a recent quote from Octopus, contacted them regarding this additional 2.5k grant (7.5k total)? Octopus have gone quiet on me regarding my reply to them sent on Wednesday.
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Yes and they said the pricing will be updated in due course. I had already paid my £500 so they’ll knock off the £2.5k from my original quote closer to the time.

Edit: They found out at the same time we did and the government only just released the detail confirming it was now £7.5k for air and ground source yesterday afternoon. It was two different rats before.
 
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Mine was £6.1, it’s now £3.6k which is cheaper than getting an unvented cylinder and gas system boiler installed by some margin.
 
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